Trinity never explained better! (Page 3)

robertbatchelor: CENA please you are in part agreeing with me and GOD.
ENOCH was translated because GOD saw him as Rightepous. I cannot argue wuth GOD .
Cena you posted scripture we need to talk over to agree that GOD is only saying ONE thing .
CENA I agree MAN is breaking the law but not all men are .
It is a choice . Cena you more agree with what I say GOD is saying but seem to think I am wrong .
Man after SIN of ADAM is seen NOT in the IMAGE of GOD . There you and I agree . Cena we are not faar apart really

robertbatchelor: Yes CENA most men disobeyed the LAW too true.
So we agree .
The repentance comes in to play. MOSES sinned and was translated after death back to life. JESUS die because Moses was already in heaven and had sinned.
Cena you are a great believer .

robertbatchelor: Cena GOD wants us to agree on all points.

Zanjan: Cena – Here’s what you wrote:
“1)Therefore, we sinners need a way to escape the righteous judgment of God. Since we are stained by sin and cannot keep the Law of God, then the only one who could do what we cannot is God himself. That is why Jesus is God in flesh. He is both divine and human. He was made under the Law (Gal. 4:4), and He fulfilled it perfectly.”

In the next post you write “it isn't people who want to escape anything.”

Here is what the actual verse Gal 4:4 says:
"4 but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law"

Here’s your response to me: “Obviously you can't read or understand what the above verses are talking about! It is from the bible, not me”

You should quote verses that are actually IN the Bible.

From that verse, which is IN the Bible, my reading is that Jesus was made of a woman who was made under the law.

My understanding: (referring to His mother) the NT says that Mary was a virtuous, chaste woman; she followed all the laws of God. Some Jews had accused her of being a harlot. Since she was also a descendant of King David, the prophecy was fulfilled by law of God (God's Divine Plan).

This verse doesn't say that Jesus was made of a God.

Zanjan: Robert, I appreciate your trying to get others to agree. However, a point of agreement needs to exist in the first place. What you offered were points *you* could agree with instead of an existing point Cena and I could agree with.

You wrote: “Jesus said " I do EVERYTHING through the FATHER that sent ME "
Please take this as GOD speaking !!”

When God speaks, He speaks in the first person, saying “I”. God directs to the listener, saying "thou". Jesus didn’t send Himself because He couldn’t create Himself. God created Jesus to bear the station of the Christ and sent Him out to do a job. God is Jesus’s BOSS. Jesus is God's Ambassador.

Nowhere does scripture say God wanted us to agree on everything the same – He loves diversity. I think He wanted us to find common ground, ground for respect and love……..and peace. He keeps saying that in all the scriptures so, I’m guessing He hasn’t changed His mind.

I’ve not found that Moses ever failed in anything. I see no place where He sinned. The people did, which is very obvious, and He bore responsibility of God’s wrath on their behalf because they were too weak to bear the punishment.

Christ did exactly the same thing, and He didn’t fail or sin either – this may be the common ground where Cena and I share belief.

robertbatchelor: Zanjan.
I do thankyou .
what you are saying is JESUS was a man like any other man. Which I agree with but millions will disagree.
GOD is JESUS Boss for sure.
GOD said this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased .

Sorry if I understand GOD in respect to MOSES.
God said to get water from the rock to........
But MOSES was angry with the people and struck the rock. Which offended GOD as thew ROCK represent JESUS. That is why MOSES had to die .the wages of sin is death.
Mose killed a man but GOD never saw that as sin because Moses was protecting a man who was being beaten.
Yes Moses failed to follow instruction in striking the rock.
But for all that GOD is the judge and after death GOD made MOSES alive and took him to heaven alive. They mever found MOSES body soJesus states he saw Moses in Heaven and it says so in the BIBLE.


I am amazed at how correct you are in your post . Few on earth can match this quote you posted. THANKYOU .

robertbatchelor: Trinity is the issue here. The wrong idea of JESUS comes from being GOD.

The world has not understood the word of GOD in the BIBLE .

Zanjan: Mostly because people can’t tell the difference between the WORD of GOD and the accounts of followers, which are actually third party sayings.

The only way this problem can be fixed is when a Prophet, Himself, writes the WORD of GOD in His own hand, then rules this writing is to be kept separate from the contributions of men.

However, this doesn’t help those who are stuck with trying to sort through the jumble of very ancient texts, along with the embellishments that rode in on a previous horse. Additionally, one has to rummage through the miasma of more recent contributions in language and thought to ancient text in the footnotes of history.

This is not to say there haven’t been any improvements -> in some circles, the Holy Ghost is now the Holy Host. I wouldn’t be surprised if, one day, they get it all together and call it the Holy Spirit.

Cenababy: Zan, well said on the above post not this "one" above this!
Here is the thing that most don't get,
"yes we are bound or suppose to be through Jesus". Like I have said before , I don't think Jesus is going to condemn based on "who you think or don't think he is" however; for me as a Christian to think that any mere man could give me my salvation is a mockery in terms!!!!

when I do research (even outside of the bible) and from many other christian sites, the one thing that stands tall is our belief that Jesus is God in the flesh, to ignore this is mockery in our minds, for we understand that "man cannot atone for sin"...here is the following that may help for others to understand where I stand in this:

1)Since the sinner can't fulfill the law and satisfy God, it follows that only God can do this! Simple logic; If we are unable to fulfill the Law, then we will be punished by the law, but since God desires us to be saved, the Law must be satisfied. Since we cannot keep the Law and it must be satisfied, then only one capable of keeping the law must be the law "GOD".
2) The reason Jesus had to die for our sins was so that we could be forgiven and go to be with the Lord. Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1 ,14; Col. 2:9), and only God can satisfy the Law requirements of a perfect life and perfect sacrifice that cleanses us of our sins.
3)All people have sinned against God. But, God is infinitely holy and righteous. He must punish the sinner, the Law- breaker. If He didn't, then His law is not Law, for there is no law that is a law without a punishment. The punishment for breaking the Law is death--separation from God.
4)Therefore, we sinners need a way to escape the righteous judgment of God. Since we are stained by sin and cannot keep the Law of God, then the only one who could do what we cannot is God Himself. That is why Jesus is God in flesh. He is both divine and human. He was made under the Law (Gal. 4:4), and He fulfilled it perfectly. Therefore, His sacrifice to God the Father on our behalf is of infinite value and is sufficient to cleanse all people from their sins and undo the offense to God.

lastly, have you ever wondered why "God, is not Jesus as you say" never is here, did not die on that cross? It is always/only Jesus "in flesh" that does it all, it is the Lamb/Jesus who is resurrected, who comes again, who fulfills all prophesy? Even in Psalms 22 (Daniel) describes Jesus long before people even died that way, and to fulfill prophesy on the cross Jesus said: My God My God why hast thou forsaken me? That was NOT Jesus talking to God and asking him this, that WAS Jesus fulfilling prophesy!

Cenababy: Zan , now for the Moses verses Jesus situation. Christians are NOT under the Law of Moses, The Laws are God's laws not mans laws. and as I noted above, only God can fulfill these laws. Jesus came to fulfill the laws and complete all!

Jesus was the authority not Moses.
Jesus was/Is from the beginning and he is the end
It is clear in the bible that the Holy Spirit is his to give us, when born again, and that the Holy Spirit does not work on his own, that Jesus tells him what to say, how to guide and lead. It is Jesus who did the salvation for us, and only God can do that hence to say Jesus was born in mans flesh to do this (being he is God). There are just too many scriptures that prove this to a person so as to ignore it, that is mockery to a Christian.

and to your note on God's word, JESUS IS THE WORD, always has been always will be to a Christian. John 1 is very clear on who/what/will Jesus is/was or will be!

Cenababy: Robert, the WORD IS JESUS. there is no dispute between 98 % of Christians, I think that maybe you need to re-read John 1,, this is our guideline! It is ok (again I'll say) I doubt Jesus judges on this issue, but it is pretty clearn to MOST who//what he is and will be again.

Also if you read Genesis, there are clear messages of this "the seed", this is also talking about Jesus. and who defeats satan? JESUS.....

at any rate, feel free to have your beliefs amen!

Cenababy: and ending this with :

7BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen. 8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

THIS IS JESUS! the one who is to come! Revelation 1.8

Zanjan: One last comment to take into consideration -> There's a trap door in the floor.

Robert was right about a CODE in the Bible. Some can think of it as a code of honour.

God created all because He loved their creation. He didn't make anything He didn't love. To love God is to love all of God's creations for His sake - not to pit one against the other. To say one Messenger of God doesn't have authority, but the other One does, is to deny all Whom God has sent and ever will send.

Of course, you must have your beliefs; whatever they are, have faith they'll take you somewhere.

Cenababy:

robertbatchelor: ZANPAN
In all this world you are one of a kind .
In all my 80 years I have never meet another person who accepts GOD as written in the BIBLE.
YES GOD has allowed you to crack the CODE which is a MIRACLE each time you open your BIBLE. 1 Cor.2:24 works for you and I see this.
Went you and I disagree I must hear you out and put aside ALL PRECONCEIVED IDEAS as GOD says I have to do this to be as heaven is run.

robertbatchelor: CENA

Now I see you as EMOTIONLY involved with GOD.
Yes I am going on what you say about yourself.
But where we disagree we need to sit down and REASON through it point by point. GOD has written things that as yet you have not cracked the CODE.
To prove my point here.
GOD will not force anyone to OBEY.
So I can only deal with those who as WILLINGLY following GOD.
GOD gave ISRAEL QUAILS . But GOD did not want then to have flesh food. But because ther ERRED but is was not a SIN . GOD gave then what they wanted. GOD is giving the nonbeliever the error they want as they cannot be saved so HE GOD is giving the the REWARD they CHOSE .
CENS Most people will not let GOD help them.
HEAVEN is run by the people in the UNIVERSE as they all agree with GOD..
CENA we are to talk things over with other TRUE believers. MATTHEW 25:40 is saying how you treat other TRUE BELIEVERS is how you treat GOD. GOD is in the true believer not in the so called believer .
cENA JESUS was a human being in line of KING DAVID. Not in line with DIVINITY.
King DAVID never sinned till he married ABBAGAIL.
JESUS was born of woman born of WOE..unquote from our GOD. CENA you see me as a human but I am quoting your GOD to you,. And you blame me ??
! Cor.2:14 divides us off as who is of GOD and who is not.
The BIBLE names the points to follow.
JESUS sure was GOD with us but only in GOD's terms NOT IN HUMAN THINKING .

You have THEE WORD dying on the CROSS which just cannot happen.
GOD knows but humans have limited LOGIC .

robertbatchelor: Romans 1:21,22 Well worth looking into

HydroMan: Matthew 22:41-46 says, “While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he? The son of David [a seed of David], they replied. He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls Him [the Messiah] ‘Lord’? For he [David] says, ‘The LORD said to my Lord: Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet’. If then David calls Him [the Messiah] ‘Lord,’ how can he [the Messiah] be his [David’s] son? No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions”. By quoting David’s own writings (Psalm 110:1), Jesus showed the Pharisees that David referred to the Messiah as ‘Lord’ – a title of profound respect and honor. In response, the Pharisees could not answer Jesus’ question because they knew a father and king (such as David) would not call his own son ‘Lord’ (ie if the Messiah was merely the son/seed of David, then David would have said, “The LORD said to my son” – not “The LORD said to my Lord”). In other words, Jesus demonstrated that the Messiah would be more than just a man – He would be God! ie The Pharisees expected the Messiah to be a man – a seed of David who would deliver them from their enemies. But Jesus demonstrated that the Messiah would be more than just a man – He would be God, as no father (such as David) would call their own son ‘Lord’ (David knew that the Messiah would be God and not just a mere mortal descended from his own seed, hence why David referred to the Messiah as ‘my Lord’ and not ‘my son’)

Zanjan: "In other words, Jesus demonstrated that the Messiah would be more than just a man – He would be God! "

Why would it be necessary to use other words when the Word of God is flawless?

The Pharasees, by their response, were saying they were expecting a *Jew* to be the Messiah. They already knew the meaning of 'sons of God' because they used it for all devoted believers.

The Lord has no need to speak to Himself.

Cenababy: Jesus was teaching them! He is the Messiah, God. This is the point of Hydro's post!

Zanjan: So, David spoke of the Messiah, then Jesus had to explain that to the Pharisees, then Hydo had to explain Jesus, then Cena had to explain Hydro,

My Sweet God, can no one think for themselves???!? Please, I ask you in advance NOT to explain *me* - I've very capable, thanks.

HydroMan:

Cenababy: geesh zan as usual........please pay tench! It is very understandable that Jesus had to explain, obvious we were dealing with self righteous, evil men who needed to be treated as babies and told it is NOT all about them, Jesus did that!

Cenababy: btw JESUS CONFIRMS!!!!!!!