I am an atheist, but... (Page 2)

Zanjan: I'm ok with that.

AliveSomewhereElse: Of course. My point is the word of God is everywhere and it has an influence on everyone whether they accept religion or not. I think this thread shows that.

Zanjan: It shows what sort of influence it has on certain people. I have nothing against emotions; I just think they should be followed by action.

AliveSomewhereElse: You wouldn't know what actions a person has taken unless you ask or get close enough to see.

AliveSomewhereElse: Assumptions aren't fair. I understand that I don't know anything about you except for comments here in forums so I am not being fair am I?

Zanjan: To your previous post -> Yes I do - the admission of being an atheist speaks volumes. What it says is "I will not do what the Word of God tells me to do"

To your second post: whether you are fair or not is not my business.

AliveSomewhereElse: I specify that I am not an atheist because I understand how that is perceived and it doesn't fit my beliefs. I respect that religion can be good for some people and I respect anyone that holds strong beliefs and tries to be consistent but I am a person that also has strong beliefs but if I am wrong I am always open to change.

AliveSomewhereElse: Well, you aren't being fair seeing everyone without religion as stubborn fools.

AliveSomewhereElse: Anyways...I can't speak for Geoff or anyone else but a love for that song or Ave Maria isn't simply an admittance that they like it because it has a pretty melody. My point may just go over heads as usual but I understand.

Zanjan: Geoff, do you like the lyrics of Ave Maria because it worships the mother of Jesus?

Zanjan: Geoff, do you like the lyrics of Amazing Grace because you found yourself and thank/praise God for it?

Zanjan: Geoff: " I love Amazing Grace........Because I truly want humans to be more than they are."

Do you think religious music will make them be better people?

Personally, I think the original "Bandaid" concert was quite successful in triggering generosity towards children in disaster zones. I loved it, I loved the music and unity amongst diverse artistic talents. Too bad the effect didn't last longer than a couple months. Then again, it was called 'Bandaid" for a reason.

I still love any musicians that give benefit concerts - love that they use the gift God gave them to do some good in the world. If only pissing into a hole in the bucket, at least the bucket gets wet and lifts the spirits. It's emergency assistance, better than nothing, but WILL make a difference to many.

Corwin: I was the one who mentioned my love for Ave Maria, and yes I do understand the meaning of the words. I learned the song so I could play it on my guitar and exercise my amazing tenor opera voice. (and you're all going ) I prefer the Latin version... there's a German version too, but the Latin syntax is much more basic.

It wasn't enough to just mimic the song phonetically, I had to understand the Latin I was singing or else I simply couldn't memorize the words. It's essentially a dying wish, an appeal to Mary to pray for us sinners, now at the hour of our death. Better her than me; I'm an Atheist.
I couldn't imagine a more beautiful song to be listening to on my death bed, but I don't need to believe in a deity to appreciate both the soothing melody and the message, and be moved by it... a sense of spirituality is a component of the Human condition... although I attribute that to Human psychology rather than some external supernatural power.

Here's a favorite Humanistic song that I find very uplifting, and relays a message that is similar to Geoff's sentiment.


I am the Eagle, I live in high country.
Through rocky cathedrals I reach to the sky.
I am the Hawk, and there's blood on my feathers,
but time is still turning, they soon will be dry.
All those who see me, and all who believe in me,
carry the freedom I feel when I fly.

Come dance with the west wind, and touch on the mountain tops.
Sail over the canyons and up to the stars.
To reach for the heavens and hope for the future,
and all that we can be, not what we are.

Geoff: Zanjan - please don't take my words out of context.

Perhaps you can't understand the transcendent nature of human consciousness without imprinting your view of a deity on top of it, but I can.

So, maybe you should just walk away before you embarrass yourself further?

Zanjan: To understand the transcendent nature of man, you first have to transcend man's human nature and all its human limitations. Since you're an atheist, when do you figure you accomplished that??

No offense, maybe you should rephrase what you wrote so it doesn't appear like you're pretending to know something when you don't.

(dictionary.com)


transcendent
[tran-sen-duh nt]

Examples
Word Origin

adjective
1.
going beyond ordinary limits; surpassing; exceeding.
2.
superior or supreme.
3.
Theology. (of the Deity) transcending the universe, time, etc.
Compare immanent (def 3).
4.
Philosophy.

Scholasticism. above all possible modes of the infinite.
Kantianism. transcending experience; not realizable in human experience.
Compare transcendental (defs 5a, c).
(in modern realism) referred to, but beyond, direct apprehension; outside consciousness.

Geoff: Sorry, if you choose to once more take my words out of context, then I will go back to ignoring you.

I didn't say "transcend man's human nature".

I said, "the transcendent nature of human consciousness".

Perhaps you'd like a dictionary? Or... to phone a friend?

Geoff: Ah - editing after the fact.

Well, let me point out that human consciousness made your gods. So, maybe you should be a little more in awe of it.

Zanjan: No....your post jumped my edit but I can change that

Zanjan: I bet you my consciousness isn't the same as your consciousness. That implies more than one consciousness. You'll have to transcend yours to understand mine.

Geoff: No, of course it's not. But it's human nonetheless.

And all gods, as human understand them, are created by human consciousness.

And I'd love to see you argue that and keep your credibility.

MercuryDragon: Swing Low, Sweet Chariot

<<<Atheist here as well. Also feel same way as those above me sans theist.

Zanjan: oh dear, another leapfrog. Geoff, does that mean you think I had credibility before that?

Geoff: I don't think that. But I believe you thought that you did.

Zanjan: Well, you've been on wireclub for a long time - never once did I think you thought I had credibility. We've never had a meeting of consciousness. I must not be human. Unless, you're the one who's not human - to be fair, the logic of transcendentalism dictates that one of us surely isn't. Unless..............one of us did some backsliding and forgot. It could happen.

Geoff: No, I accept that you're human. I accept that you'd probably do the right thing if faced with it. But we've never met in a discussion about a truly important subject.

The existence or not of god is not an important subject. And if a god thought it was, then it would be a god not worth following.