Why do non-religious people go to the Religion chat?
TheDoctor394: I've been going to the Religion chat at Wire Club for over two years now. It includes a mixture of Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. But there are also a considerable amount of atheists, as well as other people who are not just non-religious, but anti-religious.
I'm in the room now, and it has 19 chatters. As far as I can work out, not only am I the only Christian, but I'm the only religious one. 18 non-religious chatters, out of 19, in a room where the topic is Religion.
I'm curious, and I have been for some time, to know why such people go to the room. I'm not saying they shouldn't. I just wonder why they do.
Brandijoi: That's a very good question and one I've been asking for a long time. You'd think people would navigate towards what interests them, all I can think of is they're there to be naysayers.
SWlNE: I'm interested in many topics that I'm not involved in. I'll talk Politics even if I'm not in the field of Politics (or wish to be, unless it's to be a Dictator). Same with having discussions in the Religion room (or forum), I'll go there to speak on the topics thrown around. There are also a mix of topics, it doesn't stay specifically on religion, there seems to be regulars who'll go to have conversations with each other.
On a side note, why would you leave out atheist? To me it fits with the theme of the room.
(Edited by SWlNE)
Cenababy: The problem isn't athiest or others, the problem is, if you are not religious, why go in a religion room to disrupt, spew, make fun of, argue or slander? WHY do they, just as in school, you wanted to be with the crowd, if not, you felt left out? Also, they go in to see what we are saying, spew and then take over the room, thirdly.........people want to push religion out, christianity out, they make fun of what they don't understand, can't find, can't have or reject, why not try to break people down to join their non beliefs? HA
shadowline: I think they're conflicted. If you talk to any of them over a period of time, you will usually find that they have religion in their background and that they over-reacted against it at some point. Now, not content to simply leave it alone and get on with life without it, they have become self-consciously hostile.
I'm not surprised to find that many of them are Americans, that being the country in what used to be the Christian world where the religion is still strongest. Inevitably, it provokes its own shadow.
And to some, Christianity (I've never really heard this about other religions) looks retrogressive - it always seems to be on the wrong side in progressive issues, like killing life in the womb or equating sodomy with marriage. Already disliking it for personal reasons, they add social progressivism (if there is such a word) to the brew. And they like to have the opportunity to say so.
(Edited by shadowline)
Cenababy: well, that may be true Shadow, who knows theiir underlying reasons , probably some have an agenda, they have been ex-communicated and so they are on aa mission to destroy. some didn't "feel God" so they leave, thinking and being taught that unless you "feel " him, you do not bbelong, which is shame on the churches for teaching that. Interestingly enough, I have met ex-christians, what's more so interesting, it is usually catholic or pentacostal that leave! they are revengeful due to that particular denom or church teachings.
please be cautious about this site, i agree with some of the things, but certainly not all
wayne elliott: I agree that many if not most people have some form of religion in their background - whether it is a family that was based in religion or indoctrination when young: "Give me a child until they are seven and I'll give a (insert religion) for life." Religion was once completely central to society. It was the reason for some terrible historical atrocities against those that dared question it or belonged to some other faith, and still is in some parts of the world. In todays free societies there is a healthy debate about the place of religion and how it should or should not affect those around it. Religion has proved to be stubbornly reluctant to move with the expansion of collective knowledge and human rights. "Social progression" is about inclusivity for all regardless of personal chosen religious beliefs.
Places like wireclub encourage discussion. It's a good thing. One should always question ones own beliefs. While there will always be those who will deride the religious, there will also be those of religion who will condemn them - and perversly, each other - in the name of their chosen God. Religion does not make someone good or superior. Neither does Atheism.
TheDoctor394: Alright... thank you to those who have replied to my initial post.
I could guess at some reasons why so many non and anti-religious people go to the Religion Room, based largely on how they behave when they're there, but I wanted to give people a chance to actually give a direct answer.
Certainly, many chatters, who are no longer religious, have religious backgrounds, and it remains with them in some way (I have a friend there who acknowledged that to me recently). Hence, they feel a continual draw towards it - they want to discuss it, etc.
At least, one would think many of them wish to discuss it. But I wonder, if that is the case, then why myself, who loves to have a debate on such things, can hardly ever find someone who is ready to actually do so in a reasonable manner? So many who do go to the room echo Ghostgeek's attitude there - they just want to be rude, insult, sneer, ridicule. They don't want to discuss at all. Bear in mind, these are usually also the people who say the world would be better without religion. And these irreligious people are a good testimony to that?
A couple of times in the chat, I did ask some atheists why they come to the room, and I twice got the answer that they were trying to show religious people how deluded we were, try to speak sense into us and suchlike. Of course, this can be done politely or rudely, but however it is attempted, there is an irony here, since one of the major criticisms of religious people is that we push our views onto others. Obviously, it is not just religious people who do that.
Certainly, there is a variety of reasons that non and anti-religious people go to chat, but my questions goes out to the haters of religion, who just want to ridicule. Why? Why sneer at those who have different views from yours? Why put down? Why do little more than insult? It certainly does not put your own world view in a very good light, and is hardly constructive. Also, as well as giving the impression that you're not very nice people, it makes it sound like you really don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Is this the world you want to see? A world that is made up of such people?
ghostgeek: Doctor, surely you've noticed that some people like to get in a fight. It doesn't matter what the subject is, just as long as there's a good punch-up involved. No point crying about it. You either slug it out or leave.
shadowline: No, your point of view on that subject would quite irrelevant here. Make a forum about it, if you want to discuss the subject. ("Chapter and verse" about something that can't be proved. That will be interesting, in the appropriate place.)
ghostgeek: Perhaps you haven't noticed Shadowline, but I've refrained from expatiating on the subject. Not that you aren't tempting me with your comment.
shadowline: I'm mischievous. But if there's a forum for discussion of that subject, or if you make one, I'd be happy to see what you have to say.
Charles Darwin: I can't speak for other non-religious people, but for myself. Religion is a topic I enjoy discussing for multiple reasons and that's why I'm there discussing it. I'm sure that's the reason most other folks are there, too.
Very few people would try to argue the fact that religion is an incredibly powerful thing. It can cause people to do a great deal of good for one another or a great deal of bad. It can alter people's lives, either for the better or worse. Religion and superstition is interwoven in our culture nearly everywhere we look, so it's really no surprise that many people that may not believe in any particular religion still take an interest in it.
Another thing...having intellectual conversations with people on thought provoking topics is good for the mind. I've learned a lot debating people on various topics and I've also been able to help teach others a thing or two.
As far as people being rude.... That's not a one way street. To Christians, it usually looks like the atheists/agnostics/whoever are the rude ones, to the atheists, the Christians seem to be the rude ones. It's because our "in-group" is usually a lot more tolerant towards us and a lot less so with "outsiders"
As far as the reason why there's soooo many atheists all over religion chat rooms...Well... You guys have churches for association with other like-minded individuals. Do you know how many people attend churches and don't even believe what's being preached just because they like the people there? Churches fill an important role for a ton of people outside of any sort of religious thing. Non-religious folks only find that sort of thing in places like Wireclub, forums about these topics, Facebook groups, etc.
The last thing...the question may not be "why are there so many non-religious people here?!", but rather "Where are all the religious people?" If an equal percentage of religious people were interested in discussing their faith as there are non-religious wanting to discuss faith in general, you'd have a hard time finding a non-religious person. You guys outnumber us by far, so where are all of you?
TheDoctor394: That last question was actually one I was asking myself recently, Charles, and is a fair point. Where are the religious people? One answer I would give, at least in regards to Christianity, is that many Christians go to Christian rooms. I used to chat in them for years, and led one on MSN for a while. This is not unreasonable in itself - it's comforting and also Biblical to mix with other believers on a regular basis, and, for some people, the Internet might be one of the few chances they get to do that. But, by the same token, too many are afraid to discuss things with people from other beliefs, and that is sad. Too many Christians are, unfortunately, not as strong or as sure as they should be in regards to their beliefs.
In regards to people being rude, I agree completely that some Christians can be horrendously rude. It's very depressing. But my view concerning the rudeness of atheists is not that they are rude because they just have difference opinions. You've seen some of them in chat, Charles. While you are one of the refreshing ones who present yourself in a polite, dignified manner, too many others are terrible in their hateful, spiteful attitudes, or simply pathetic with their childish insults. I certainly point fingers towards both camps in that regard, but my initial post was particularly concerning the non-religious, and the reasons for their various actions and attitudes.
And saying that some people come to the Religion room for the company is fair enough too. The first girl I ever fell in love with was a fellow student of mine when I studied Childcare many years ago, and I soon found out she went to a church near mine. Naively, I thought she was a Christian, but I soon found out that she was not just an unbeliever, but quite against anything concerning Christianity. From what I gathered, she wanted the company, and liked the people.
(Edited by TheDoctor394)
Cenababy: Doc, it also could be "the dusting of feet" and "stay within the flock as well", although, I have met many on here, and well, let's just say I use my discernment, all they want to do is yell, AMEN, and not discuss. so there are those sides too with regards to why they won't go into the Religion Room. I have known many Christians that use to go into the Religion Room and have left for the bullying and the filth, and many who have left this sight for several reasons (we won't get into that). so there are all sides.
TheDoctor394: Yes, I would agree with that too, although, even then, some Christians are of the "Listen to me, agree with me straight away, or I'm going" bent, which takes the "dusting of feet" concept too far. But yes, some might come and actually attempt to get intelligent debates, but soon give up. I've come close to that myself more than once.
Cenababy: yes, I have seen this too. Sigh.....what to do, will ponder
I have seen you get steamed lately LOL, I don't blame you!
ghostgeek: Atheists have a point of view as well. Do you who believe in some form of god want to engage with it or just ignore it exists?
Cenababy: ghost, we know all to well, afterall, we live in a secular nation, sadly! Look around, do you think if this were a Christian Nation, all this would be going on? NO, I can answer that.
ghostgeek: If you think the U.S. is a secular nation you should visit the U.K. From this side of the Pond you Americans look like a bunch of gun toting religious nuts.
Charles Darwin: @Doc,
I've definitely seen exactly what you're talking about with atheists and agnostics...and I've thought quite a bit on it. It reminded me of a Christian forum I found a few years back. The moderation on the forum was quite strict and atheists who were "looking to debate" and not asking sincere questions were usually suspended or banned. This made sure that the amount of Christians on the site were always way, way higher than the amount of non-believers....and the roles were completely reversed. The Christians on that site seemed a lot more aggressive and rude than they typically are on a place like Wireclub. Another example is the Jesusconnect chat room here on Wireclub. They have a reputation for being very rude, intolerant people...and they're in the majority in that room.
I personally believe what happens in these situations is a sort of "pack mentality" among whichever group is in the majority. Because non-believers are in the majority in places like the religion room here, they tend to get themselves riled up more than they would if they were in the minority. It's obvious in my experience that people aren't any more or less rude because of what they do or don't believe...The issue is more a social phenomenon rather than how these sorts of ideas affect a person's personality.
Us living in a secular nation is the reason that you can be free to believe what you believe and practice it how you see fit without feeling like the Government is discriminating against you or showing favoritism towards someone else at the same time that a Jew, a Muslim or an atheist feels the same way. If this was a Christian nation, a lot of non-Christians wouldn't feel like this was THEIR country quite as much as they currently do.
(Edited by Charles Darwin)
TheDoctor394: I have long despaired at the state of Christian chats online, and the way they treat people.
In my early years of chatting, I was a regular at three different Christian sites (not at the same time, but one after another). The first one I eventually found out was a cult, connected to a cultic church, while the second had touches of it, and then the third, again, operated very much as a cult (obey the leaders without question, or you will be kicked and maybe banned).
Sometime down the track, I, almost accidently, opened a Christian room on MSN, and people started coming to it immediately. I quickly made up my mind that it was not going to be some theocratic society. Yes, I would be in charge, but I encouraged comments, objections, and also people of various beliefs, as long as they were respectful of where they were. The operators/monitors of the room were not to behave like they were above reproach, or were better than those "below" them.
This encouraged some people who were not allowed in other Christian rooms, either Christians who were more worldly than the average ones, or simply difficult, as well as some non-religious people. One was a girl called Seized Necromancer, who was kicked out of other Christian rooms because of her name. She admitted she came to Christian rooms initially to mock, before finding out we weren't all so bad, and she eventually fitted in and became a regular.
Of course, all this kept some people out of the room, as it was seen as depraved, unholy, etc. In fact, in its latter days, the room was hacked, and before I was able to do anything about it, someone jumped in and took the name of the room (Brisbane Christian Chat) and opened it themselves as "under new management", and stating how it would be much more Christian and decent and suchlike ("the room's name is the same but the language is not!" was one of their statements I'll never forget). I tried reasoning with this woman, but she truly believed she was doing this piece of dishonesty in the name of the Lord.
It is depressing when Christians behave in such ways (although I would suggest not all of them hold to the beliefs they claim), as we are taught to be honest, loving, patient, kind and have good self control. And all that shouldn't matter whether we're part of a pack or not.