Near Death and Out of Body Experiences (Page 34)

ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Maybe not. If death means the end, and nothing but the end, then none of us will ever know about it.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Ahem.....there's a way for you to find out right now.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Of course death means the end! It's the end of one life and the beginning of another. Reality doesn't drop off a cliff.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: So you believe, Zanjan, but try backing up your words with corroborated fact. I really doubt you'll be able to.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: I did. I've re-told my story numerous times about how I died and lived to tell about it. Since I had nothing to do with that event, for me, it was proof positive. Physical and Divine confirmations followed.

I understand how difficult that is for some to believe so I've never expected them to - I'm just adding my voice to the class action, while encouraging others who need just one more reason from a trusted source to become motivated.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: You may have mentioned that you died but you've failed to reveal the details to me.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: I tell the public in general terms and Baha'is in specific terms - the details, however, are private since they only apply to me.
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TheismIsUntenable
TheismIsUntenable: Imagine saying that a fable in a book is proof of anything. Just wow...it's like BS proud of how brainlessly stupid and gullible he is.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Fables usually teach lessons by having a moral to the story. You'd have to show how the moral is wrong and inapplicable. The truth stands wherever it is, in whatever form. That's reality.
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GeraldtheGnome
GeraldtheGnome: This forum is better when it’s about the subject it’s supposed to be about without repeated words by anyone, Bob makes me laugh though with what he mistakenly believes is true. Zanjan does a bit of that too. Yes, the forum is generally better without all of that, but still not good, it’s all about unproven beliefs after all, sorry, people do hallucinate and have dreams so you can’t rule that out. I mean in reality it’s an awful, yet interesting forum about near death claims and out of body experience claims. I still cannot work out how anyone can prove the claims or even show how any of it is possible. All of the claims will never be proven.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: FOR millennia out of body experiences have been seized on as evidence of an afterlife or proof that humans have a soul which leaves their body after death.

But neuroscientists are increasingly unravelling the brain malfunctions that trigger these mysterious and sometimes disturbing phenomena, with laboratory experiments showing that they can be simulated using virtual reality - and may even offer a breakthrough solution for chronic pain.

Dr Jane Aspell, an associate professor of cognitive neuroscience who is due to present the latest findings of her own research at the upcoming British Science Festival, said one of the first things to understand is that despite their common association with operating tables, near fatal heart attacks, and 'bright lights and tunnels' they often have nothing to do with near-death events.

"One of the most common causes of an OBE [out-of-body experience] is epilepsy," said Dr Aspell.

"They can also be caused by migraines, tumours, brain injuries, and they can even happen in healthy people - particularly in traumatic situations, like a traumatic childbirth or a road crash. Very strong fatigue can also cause it."

[ https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19543938.truth-body-experiences---might-cure-pain/ ]
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: In 2004, a woman who was conscious with part of her skull removed while surgeons attached electrodes to her brain in preparation for a procedure to treat her epilepsy spontaneously experienced an OBE, telling medics she could see herself and them "from above".

"She wasn't really above herself," said Dr Aspell. "It's a hallucination created by the brain, and it was triggered by stimulation of this particular brain area."

The region concerned is the temporoparietal junction (TPJ), a nexus which processes sensory information such as sight and touch to create a feeling of the 'self' being located within the body.

If its normal function is disrupted, however - for example by a seizure or a reduction in blood flow during a heart attack - the TPJ "generates an experience of the self that is very bizarre", says Dr Aspell.

"The self then appears to be located outside of your body."

[ https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19543938.truth-body-experiences---might-cure-pain/ ]
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lori100
lori100: that dr. has no evidence,,,,show me a hallucination
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lori100
lori100: show me a 'self'
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Although fascinating in their own right, OBEs are also shedding light on how the brain constructs its sense of 'self' as well as potential therapeutic uses.

One experiment Dr Aspell has been carrying out in her lab at Anglia Ruskin University uses virtual reality to mimic heautoscopy.

In it, participants don a virtual reality headset which is linked up to a webcam positioned exactly two metres behind them, giving the illusion that they are standing behind themselves.

A researcher who is also in the room then taps the participant on the back, leaving the participant's brain flummoxed by contradictory senses of sight and touch.

"You're feeling these taps on yourself, but you're seeing them on the body in front of you," said Dr Aspell.

"This starts to induce an illusion - not in everyone, but some people experience it very strongly - that the virtual body in front of you is the real you and that your self is not located in your own body."

While some people are "freaked out" by the experience, when the study is repeated on volunteers with autism - whose brains process the 'self' differently - they do not experience the illusion at all.

[ https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19543938.truth-body-experiences---might-cure-pain/ ]
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lori100
lori100: show me an illusion
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Tricky. What about showing yourself an optical illusion.
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TheismIsUntenable
TheismIsUntenable: When you bring facts, they bring fantasies. The loonies gonna loon.
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lori100
lori100: prove you exist bot
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TheismIsUntenable
TheismIsUntenable: who are you talking to?
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lori100
lori100: you
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TheismIsUntenable
TheismIsUntenable: So if you think you're talking to somebody that exists, why are you asking that person whether or not they exist?

It's a bit like questioning your own motivations...
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lori100
lori100: nope
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TheismIsUntenable
TheismIsUntenable: Little too much thinking required, huh?
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GeraldtheGnome
GeraldtheGnome: It doesn’t matter if it is about what is claimed on this forum or on another forum, elsewhere on the internet or anywhere else. Can the claim be proven to be true ? If the answer is no then it must be worked out if it is at least possibly true. If that cannot be shown then brace yourself for those that can disprove the claim that was made.
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