Religion and Mental Illness

MetteFromFinland: Many children have imaginary friends and they usually grow out of it. Some retain their imaginary friends into adulthood. We call them religious. It does seem more similar to a mental illness, especially when one considers that those adults with an imaginary friend also seem to have an imaginary enemy.

chronology: Sigmund Freud has more or less established that all religious activities such as rituals and masses etc etc are Obsessive Compulsive Disorders. This does not disprove the existence of God, but does help people understand the chanting, swaying, crying, standing and sitting, signs of the cross, and numerous sexual symbols connected to religion.

'Mental Illness' seems a little strong a definition. Some people just do not make it in life. They become trapped in drugs, or gambling, or religion etc. A small percentage of mankind make it to the mountain top of consciousness and can sing that song by The Who called 'I'm Free' , but the vast majority of mankind fall victim to drugs, booz religion etc.

Zanjan: XV wrote: "Some retain their imaginary friends into adulthood."

That's because their distracted parents couldn't be bothered to get them a pet so they could learn how to BE a friend.

Strange you want to think religious folks have imaginary friends - if you were talking about barflies, yeah, but religious folks have hundreds of living friends because they belong to and participate in a real community of physically present bodies who actually help each other. This is a fact and, that's the attraction - being sociable.

Why make stuff up? Who needs imaginary enemies with people like you around?

Zanjan: Mental illness knows no race, nationality, culture or income level - the smart ones realize they have a problem and seek religion to stabilize themselves. Drugs aren't enough.

A religious community is a school & hospital combined - it takes all kinds and nurses them back to health; in the case of organic disorder, those with mental illness also find comfort and purpose, which permits their heart to be calm, accepting, and able to receive love.

That care and consideration is worth noting - not offerings of the worthless, who mock the ill and those they don't understand.

chronology: You do make some sweeping statements at times Zan. The experiences people who belonged to churches have told me is that the moment they became ill or unemployed etc they were thrown out of their churches,

All I could reply was 'you were of no further use to them, so what do you expect' ? I would expect nothing less from such people, but the folks who described their experiences with churches seemed really surprised they were excluded so fast and effectively.

'You have learned a valuable lesson. Other people do not know what you know' is all I could suggest to help them out of their gloomy time.

Zanjan: I wasn't talking about cults or fringe sects. Those who've fallen in with such groups didn't have their heart in the right place to begin with. The devil only deceives the disingenuous.

Rocking, trembling, shaking, dancing in trance, whatever - those things have nothing to do with the religions of God and have never been prescribed by Him. They're human devices, usually copied from tribal cultures. Getting all worked up emotionally doesn't bring one closer to God; albeit, there's testimony it can make one temporarily forget they have aches and pains.

God isn't against music - it's a knowledge, intended to lift the spirits; like any art, it shouldn't be misused - moderation is wise.

Hopefully, they did learn a lesson, Chron. We don't all have to learn them by jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

Also, religion isn't confined to Christianity.

chronology: They were not in cults they were in main street churches.

Zanjan: Well, that doesn't happen here in "mainline" church denominations. The worst that could happen is getting ignored.

Maybe we should establish what is NOT a mainline church - this rule is not based on size of membership but by general consensus of the body of mainline churches. They're self-policing and vocal about what they've determined is NOT Christian. Excommunication, across the board, is only for very serious offenses so, it's rarely done.

I can tell you the behaviour you're describing definitely doesn't belong to mainline Christian groups. I think you've been had, Chron.

chronology: Let sleeping dogs lie I say Zan. Yes, let the dogs lie.

shadowline: Viktor Frankl was a psychologist who took a very different view from Freud on the subject of religion. He found that people with religious beliefs were more stable, and stronger, than those without, because their essential human need for meaning was being ministered to.

His experience in a concentration camp during the Second Word War was the important setting in which he discovered this. He found that those who believed in something fared better under the worst conditions.

His account of this can be found in his book Man's Search for Meaning, and is mesmerizing reading.

Zanjan: Quick reference - Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs

Zanjan: True freedom belongs to the heart and mind, not the body. If you possess it, no one can take it from you under any circumstance.

Blackshoes: If some have rejected the truth ,facts, and evidence . Who then has the case of mental illness ?

Faith in God is not Blind faith ! Just because some one doesn't believe in gravity ? It doesn't mean gravity doesn't exist ! Note: No one can see gravity ', we only see it's work and can perdict what it can do and does .. . God work and love surrounds us all ', every where from a baby first breath to the collison of galaxies !

Of course those who think themselves wise ? Often deny all that God has created and does !


Romans 1:20-22

1:20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

1:21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

1:22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

cloudygrey33: Shadowline- Love that book! Excellent point!

There is no doubt that there is validity to the fact that religion can be a source of severe pain and even mental illness for some. I am the living proof of it. Grew up in a deeply religious home with a Southern Baptist minister. At a young age, I took every word that I was taught extremely literally and seriously. At some stages of life I became obsessed with the fear of hell, and viewed God as a wrathful/judging character waiting to capitalize on every sin. I would say that I developed what is known as religious scrupulosity.

It is only in studying the deeper meanings/metaphors and even history of the Bible (and the history of how hell came to become connected to the church) that I started to see a clearer picture. I found a sense of deep love and connectedness through a realization of the loving/caring/compassionate nature of Christ. That there is a community all around me through the faces of the people I see on a daily basis who are all God's children. That once you swim through all the dogma, legalism and tradition- There is something down at the center of it called love- The point we so often miss or overlook. And there is a stability and strength in that love that can't be take away by any of the damage of man-made religion and rituals.
It is an anchoring force you can hold on to in the concentration camps (as Shadow mentioned) or in the darkest hours. But it isn't just some imaginary friend. It is ACTION that you take in your world to try to make it a better place/kindness you show others and even yourself- inspired and driven by a God of love.

But yeah- You could also probably say that without growing up with that foundation of fear, I might not have ended up even believing in God. There is some damage there and an unhealthy way of seeing the world that I've spent a long time trying to unravel. For sure. I'm a skeptical person by nature and faith doesn't come easy to me.

NoSuchName: yeh god botherers r mental lol

Zanjan: They say when you talk to yourself, that's normal; but when you answer yourself, that's mental illness.

Angry Beaver: Pssst blackie, this one's about religion, not evolution....talking for the yes vote there were ya?

Blackshoes: Evolution is a religion ! It's based entirely on the faith of assumption and opinions of it preachers and followers ! Evolutionist masquerade as if it's based in science !

cloudygrey33: Blackshoes- Evolution is as widely accepted in scientific fields as gravity is. That's why they're both theories. (Theory in scientific terms is not the same as you think it is. Theory is widely accepted scientific fact based on testable/observable evidence.) They've observed evolution in studies now... It isn't some strange Satanic idea they dreamed up or invented to discredit the Bible. Much like the old days when the church believed that those who taught the earth was round were heretics ... You are doing the same thing! Religion always resists science! And it is kinda nuts, frankly.

You can find a ton of pseudo science invented by religious institutions that tries to force the Bible to be literally true in every instance- But evolution and the Bible don't have to be in disagreement! You can still hold on to both things at the same time. It is all in your interpretation of scripture. The Bible is a book for spiritual study and insight. Not a science text book. Do you refuse to take antibiotics when you're sick? Those aren't in the Bible. Do you use a car? That isn't in there either. They used to think it was ridiculous that a doctor wanted to wash his hands to kill germs too. But thanks to science we finally figured that one out too! You can thank science and the human brain (that God made by the way) for those things! Genesis is full of metaphors that are deeper than just literal interpretations... In fact there are TWO creation stories in Genesis back to back that have multiple contradictions. These are STORIES that are used to illustrate deeper truths! Faith isn't about manipulating data to make a book seem more true. Faith is about trusting God even when all of your certainty doesn't pan out exactly how you thought it would.

But that's just my interpretation of faith. Maybe you disagree and that' s ok. I don't need evolution to be false to believe in God.

cloudygrey33: Blackshoes- I have no issue providing some helpful links/information - But I can tell by your vehemence and extreme opposition to all information that does not fit your very specific narrative that it would be a complete waste of time for both of us. I am certain that neither one of us have invested even a quarter of the time and research that some scientists have in their multiple years of study on this topic- An overwhelmingly large consensus of the scientific community (with a grasp on the topic ,again, that you or I simply don't have) fall on the pro-evolution side of the line. The ones desperately fighting it are the religious fundamentalists who begin from the assumption that everything in the Bible is literally true, and then must seek to shoehorn all reality in to that box no matter what any evidence to the contrary might state. That's just how it goes. No hard feelings and I totally understand where you're coming from. You're completely stuck because in your mind for you to even entertain the notions that evolution is real would mean you're betraying God's word or sinning in some serious way. I really do understand that. Bible experts/debaters/theologians/etc ...are not the people I want running my science classes or my understanding of what's happening in science. Sorry we disagree on that simple way of seeing reality. In your mind I know that means we probably can't be friends. But I wish you well, and hope that you get all you're looking for out of life my friend. Take care!

Angry Beaver: ^^^^ This guy!

Zanjan: Are the mentally ill hijacking this topic?