Do you guys believe in spirits, or ghosts? (Page 2)

Zanjan: Well, it wasn't religion - seances were a parlour activity embraced mostly by the well-to-do, who had a taste for the exotic.
The era of seances ended badly when they were proven to be hoaxes. One can only imagine how embarrassing it was to be caught red-handed, rigging the horn in front of all those clients.

The jig was up; undercover investigating agents pursued them wherever they went. So, mediums changed their label to "spiritualists" and banded together in a club, as if that would change their skies. I classify them in the same category as the religious actors who pretend to speak in tongues while shaking and twisting their bodies in ridiculous fits.

chronology: Interesting Zan. It has always been a point of debate whether 'Old Abe' ever took part in any seances at the White House. The great man's wife was definitely a committed spiritualist and was even placed under seivailance by The Pinkerton's after Old Abes death because of her interest in spiritualism.

A Medium called Nettie Colburn claims to have woke up out of a trance to see the great man stood listening to her Channel Guide 'Mr Banford' (this is an interesting name. Consider the name of the Apartment in the Rosemary's Baby book 'The Branford' ) . This was before Old Abe was shot. She seemed to think he was sat talking to the Spirit Guide while she was in a trance. Americans dismiss the Mediums around Mary at that time as frauds, but Nettie sounds like the real deal.

A number of people have mentioned the creepy piano incident at the White House, Nettie was there when that happened. She was sat with White House 'Big Whigs' getting ready for a sitting when Mr Lincoln was shocked at the sound of a fist being slammed down on the piano keys. The piano then began 'walking' around the room as invisible hands beat out a tune on the keys. According to Nettie The President just walked out of the room, he had had enough. Other people say he jumped on the piano and tried to stop whatever the invisible being was from making it dance around the room.

Zanjan: Well, there's a difference between mediums and people who are clairvoyant. The latter don't need props.

I think some of those old stories are seriously overblown. I wouldn't believe a bit of it.

chronology: There were many such reports like that from the U.S. back then. No wonder America almost became the worlds first Spiritualist nation.

duncan124:
Ghosts are fairly real, spirits are what some people can talk to.

I have seen ghosts. They wanted to contact the police because they had been murdered.

It happened like this. The police arrived and wanted to talk to me because they had taken a photo which showed me standing next to someone at the kerbside waiting to cross.

I said I did n't know her we just happened to be standing together. And. You guys were here the other day looking for two other missing people what is going on?

As we were talking she walked along towards us...." Hey! Madam, Hey! Madam..." But she kept walking back to her flat and we followed along.

" Hey, she went in here" "why didn't she answer?" "she looked ill!"

The door was locked and the police said they could n't open it so I kicked it open.

"No, You can't do that.."

As we stood in the doorway we could see her lying dead in her rooms. She had obviously been dead for some time.

David Nathaniel: To be truly wise to reality one must study the holy scriptures in their original Hebrew and Greek forms.

The word "Satan" is taken from the Hebrew "el shaytan" and simply means "adversary" and not some sooty two horned cloven footed trident bearing mythical creature presiding over a fantasy Hell.

Jesus called Judas "a" devil and Peter "a" satan, they are titles not creatures, learn to differentiate!

Satan and or the devil as a mythical creature construct comes from " The superstition of Damonia."

Hell was mistranslated from the words "sheol" and "hades" which simply mean "grave" that's all; there's no fiery pit of eternity as the religious apostates would have you believe. Flames symbolically denote Judgement not an actual literal fiery pit of eternal torment. The heart of the law is "mercy" and an eternal fire and torment violates the heart of the law lending the lie to the scriptures that state God is a God of love and mercy.

The Greek mythology crept into the early church and corrupted it with the superstition of demons extensively active in the churches today; an erroneous doctrine.

There's no such thing as "Ghosts."

Flesh is a battery. When it dies the spark of consciousness dies with it. After the flesh as been resurrected and the spark re-ignited all the memories prior to death return to give an account of its life for judgement. God translates it to eternity predicated on repentance of that which leads to death.
Failure in this leads to the biblically named "second death" which is total annihilation and not a pit of firey torment for all eternity as the mistranslated bibles propagandise.

When you are dead you are dead, man does not have an immortal spirit in his mortal flesh. "Immortal soulism" is not biblical and makes a mockery of the resurrection.

"Immortal soulism" is the sophistry of the serpent.
The serpent implies to Eve that she will not die; this is the germinating seed of immortal soulism of the religions.

Jesus is the Prototype blueprint of the end result of Gods divine project of creating man in his own image and likeness; immortal. Till complete man is mortal only.

The fleshly mind of man is the mind of the serpent with its *"Lust of the flesh, lust of the eye and the pride of life."* When you see these 3 in man that is *sin*
The *devil* is fleshly man, *satan* is man as an adversary to God and *demons* are man's *superstitions;* anything more than this is the rantisms of the *Antichrist religions.*

Jesus recognised flesh as the devil and willingly had it crucified for the faithful.

The "devil" is man and proves who he is everyday in court when he asks you to swear on the bible.
Matthew 5v.34 But I say, do not swear on anything, v.37 Just say a simple, Yes or No. Anyone who asks you to swear is working for the devil.
Devilling - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_(legal)

Treasury Devil. The "Treasury Devil" is the colloquial term for the First Junior Treasury Counsel (Common Law), a private practitioner barrister who represents Her Majesty's Government in the civil courts. It was a tradition that the Treasury Devil was made a High Court Judge after the end of his term in office.

When we consider that the clerical devil does not exist except as a mythical fictional constituent of the "superstition of damonia" then we can only conclude that the Christ was referring to the law administration of the authorities of this world. Little wonder then that Christ warns the early Christians in Rev ch 2 v 10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, *the devil shall cast some of you into prison,* that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Now, in the light of scripture who as the power to cast into prison?
*ANSWER* >
The man *devil* the devil *man* more potent when in official office.

The word "angel" simply means messenger and can be either celestial or terrestrial but only the terrestrial angel can be fallen.
Lucifer is a title bestowed upon the King of Babylon "morning star" and was cast out of the political heavens, learn to differentiate. The sun is the ruling power of the government.
When you read of angels falling or being cast out of heaven it is terrestrial angels being cast out of human political heavens to the common earth. Its not mythical.

Giants, men of renown is simply referring to powerful religious and political leaders that's all. They are descriptive metaphors not to be taken literally.
"Unclean spirits" is a metaphor denoting unclean wilful intentions of man's own vain fleshly mind and its musings.

Christianity by law established is *"antichrist."*

"Anti" is Greek for substitute and therefore the "antichrist" power of revelation is a substitute Christ on Earth. Substitute Christ power on Earth is non other than VATICAN.
The pope is the false prophet of the book of Revelation make no mistake.

The vain idea of "demons" is simply man passing the buck, like Adam blaming God for making Eve, and Eve blaming God for the serpent. Oh its never me says man. When Jesus cast out demons it was the "superstition of demons" he cast out not actual demons with the simple truth that they are superstitious inventions hence Christs words *" Even the demons know who I am and tremble"* Christ is the *"truth."*

Churches that teach the superstition of demons are a factory for churning out mental cases. The churches and the religion of psychiatry are hand in glove.
The clergy are in the pay of the world while admitting the prince of the world is the devil so who or what is paying their wages according to their own words?
The "superstition of demons" pays their wages, invented by the devil which is man.
Take away the mythical devil, demons and hell and the churches would have no power to excite the mind. The clergies are in co-partnership with their mythical construct.

Man is born of flesh and flesh being the devil man is born of the devil hence the need to become born again of the spirit. To be adopted of God the father of immortals.
The English word "devil" comes from the Greek "diabolos" which Paul uses as a title for sin in flesh. The devil is man.
Sin entered through one man therefore man is the author of sin and not a mystical clerical devil nor God. Man is older than sin.

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men *ONCE* to die, but after this the judgment:
Rev ch 2 v 11,
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the ecclesias; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Sin is in flesh only. there is no sin in an angelic immortal being. Sin is only related to "flesh." And sin being the devil having the power of death is in flesh. After your bodily resurrection you are judged and if found disapproved your newly resurrected body will die the biblically named *"second death"* and no eternal life granted.
There is a "day of resurrection" in the future when all in their graves will come out and be judged. That's biblical. Immortal soulism is not biblical except in mistranslations and makes a mockery of the spirit inspired scriptural resurrection.

Jeremiah 30:11 I am with you and will save you,' declares the LORD. 'Though I completely destroy all the nations among which I scatter you, I will not completely destroy you. I will discipline you but only in due measure; I will not let you go entirely unpunished.'

Jesus will destroy the devil and the works of the devil at his coming advent. That means all flesh and blood including its governments and religions will be purged from the Flat Earth at the conclusion of Christs millennial reign. "That's biblical."
God bless!

Live_By_Common_Sense: Isn't ghost and spirits just a form made from the devil to mess with humankind?

Zanjan: No, most minds are already messed up. Tradition personifies everything because so many need scapegoats - a childish need. It's always easier to blame the devil than to take personal responsibility for errors. The devil is not a bounty hunter - it's just one's own ego.

Since God doesn't give anyone a burden greater than they can bear, He permits them to have scapegoats; but, not forever. He'll still call them to account. Best if one just gives up the habit, willingly.

Meanwhile, there's a spirit in everything - it's mysterious to those who lack knowledge so the natural reaction is to fear it. By doing so, they form mental aberrations, which have no substance in reality.

To wit: there are individuals who are so allergic to something, the mere mention of its name makes their skin itch so they scratch; some even start coughing and sniffling, or display symptoms of an asthmatic episode. I've seen this actually happening and it's pretty funny when I point it out to them. (I don't think they liked my observations) It be like that with ghosts.

duncan124:
The Ancients were right and we are right.

The Christians spent decades hunting down ghosts and the people who saw them. They also employed artists such as Durer to draw what people had seen.

But the Christians lead people to blame each other without bringing Justice.

Zanjan: If everyone has been right, explain the shape the world is in today. The stresses have simply knocked people off their rockers. Shame they let them have guns too.

David Nathaniel: There's no such thing as "Ghosts."

Zanjan: What about the Holy Ghost?

Zanjan: What's the difference between hostinG and hauntinG?

David Nathaniel: The Holy Spirit is a title denoting divine action not a third person of the erroneous trinity doctrine as the apostates would have you believe.

Unicornspoison: It isn't to laugh with, I'm 27 now when I was 16 I went with my girlfriend to an abandoned hospital. there was a room full of beds, we explored the building a bit when we saw a hand move on the window of the room that was full of the beds, the room was so full no one even could enter it. Later we saw some blocks to play with, in a room that said Child nursery. Later they were in a room with a number and gone in the child nursery so we felt something more than only the 2 of us was in that building. Mom once had a dare with me, be in the basement in pitch darkness. I fell someone breath in my neck mom was in front of me on a couch and she didn't move, mom said Verena get your hand off my leg I was in front but not touching her. I said mom I feel we are with 3, she lol we entered and I locked the door having the key. I said if we aren't alone here pls give me a sign with a knock, I heard a knock and said lol mom, jerk why you try to scare me she wasn't it you that knocked I no wait I sit give me your hands and I hold yours, it went from knock knock knock. She peed in her pants and I pooped in mine, first I thought it was a joke of her but later we had the feeling there was something except us

Live_By_Common_Sense: Verena, I was always taught that ghosts are just form of demon that took over a dead person life and using the human form, and impersonating as the dead person, spiritually.

Unicornspoison: I was told a ghost is a spirit that can't find rest after dead and haunt us, I saw enough that tells me we aren't the only that wander on earth. As teen dad took me hunting at night I was from yo kick ass what we gonna shoot.

We went in the woods and dad told me to stay close but feel free to search a deer, I looked for when I found but it was dark so hard to shoot if you don't see well I took my night vision saw the deer and it was like a little girl with a cuddle on bare feed in a dress with blood stains faced me. I scared took a flash removed my goggles and saw only the deer nothing else so I know that day I saw a spirit of a girl that maybe got raped in the woods or killed and dwell around not finding peace. Many say it is between your ears and you are nuts but I know what I saw and it worried me. I looked up if I couldn't find anything and found something of a girl which was 13 and got raped on the brutal way in that wood and her corpse was found. I think that day I saw that girl her ghost and maybe she tried to warn me to look out, what made me see her idk but I saw a lil girl and on the day of today I still believe there is more than we realize amongst us

Zanjan: Secret, it's odd you say one is "taught" such things - teaching requires a practical application.

Superstitions, for instance, are tales invented to calm fearful individuals; many become classics because they're amusing.
If I instruct you to throw salt over your shoulder for protection, you'd expect something would occur, right? What happens is you feel good about nothing happening. Those tend to become habits.

I remember a professional goalie, who went though a peculiar short dance routine in the goal crease before starting each game. The moves were unique to him. He believed it was "good luck" because every time he did it *exactly* the same, he played great. In reality, it was a warm up session that doubled as a tension releaser, due the pressure of continuing to perform in the top five.

However, to believe something just because somebody tells us that's what *they* believe isn't a good life strategy.

Unicornspoison: I can't say ghost don't exist I saw a girl creature covered in blood on her bottom and it was a description of that girl which was raped lost her virginity and was left for dead where she indeed died later. An abandoned hospital with a full room showed hands on the window while you can't enter it so how come I saw those things if a ghost is for much just imagination. If we die they say we live on in heaven or hell but what if you never had faith and doomed to live on earth for eternity haunting those who are still alive out of jealousy

Live_By_Common_Sense: Well, if I am a ghost roaming on earth, than others around are ghosts as well. We must be demons or we are angels. We live on vibrations and frequency. I thought as though that ghosts are just a demon portraying the human spirit that feed off our energy and vibration. What if we are dead already and just haunting ourselves.

There could be many factor to this, just like the superstitions of zombies, vampires, demons, angels and what not. I just hope that there is a better place than the hell hole were living on earth.

My theory would be is that what if hell lives off by the bad energy/frequency, and heavens lives off from the opposite. If hell don't exist, than heaven do not exist.

Zanjan: That's the same as saying 'if the shadow doesn't exist, neither does the light'.
Have you thought that the light might be so big, bright, and all-encompassing, it doesn't cast a shadow? What about the moment of creation, bursting into a void?

Heaven has illumined souls - since it's not on the physical plane, there's no shadows.

Hell has dark souls - since it's not on the physical plane either, what can you see? That's like an inkspot on a lump of coal being sucked into a black hole.

To the heavenly, the dark is non-existence.

Live_By_Common_Sense: Zanjan, I got a question. Why does hell exist? Why don't God just put all the bad people out of existence, and put the good ones in heaven with God. Why is there eternal damnation in the first place when the damnation could just be once and gone forever.

Zanjan: Well, first, understand that whatever has been created can't become uncreated, it can only transform. Transformation plays out differently on each plane of existence. So, I’ll respond to that in two parts.

On the physical plane, reformation of substance applies to everything. Everything that lives must die and it's parts are recycled, being taken up by the environment. The endless breakdown , separation and dispersal of material on it's journey to re-purposing is well known. Thus, our bodies came from dust and return to dust. No element ceases to exist, it just moves out of our line of sight.

On the spiritual plane, however, there’s no disintegration because a spirit is a unit of dimension. Every creature has a spirit, be it mineral, vegetable or animal, and it remains moving according to the nature of its spirit. In other words, the spirit has been pre-set at the factory. This is well known too. Like the above, it doesn’t cease to exist, it’s just invisible to the naked eye.

However WE have an additional spiritual dimension – we have the animal spirit plus we have a soul; that makes us dual natured. They’ve been eroniously described as “sides” of our being but the reality is that they’re levels – lower and upper. While they can’t be separated, one can be somewhat ignored.

The spirit is the ID but the soul is that pure faculty which recognizes its Creator and comprehends divine attributes.

You can think of spirit as an arid landscape of robotic, repetative impulses but the soul as the 'flower bed' where the powers of knowledge and virtues grow. Free Will permits migration in fleeting visits between the altitudes; whereas, transformation is the movement to permanent dwelling.

Zanjan: Now you’ll see when we spend too much time on the lower level (spirit), we become unhappy, hungry, thirsty, unfulfilled and locked in. One searches for more but hasn’t been to that place for so long, they’ve forgotten the way. They feel powerless. THAT is hell.

What to do?? God sends Messengers and illumined souls, offering to lead you up the mountain. Follow them and when you arrive, you'll find new life has been breathed into you - THAT is heaven. The former world of being is no longer important, it’s merely a speck. That is non-existence to you, it’s death. This lofty world is the life of the soul, which dwells in the kingdom of God.

So, hell is that state of mind which is aware of its own powerlessness; whereas, heaven is that state of mind which realizes the source of its power. In scriptural terms, hell is distance from God and heaven is nearness to God.

Upon your physical death, you’ll be caught on the string of that zither you’re plucking – that place will be your eternity since, in the hereafter, you can no longer progress by your own free will.

However, while you're still on earth, you have every opportunity to plant your own garden - that's the joy of life - even if there's only one flower in it, it's better than presenting to God, a withered, crippled soul.

Live_By_Common_Sense: I want to know, how do you get all these information. Are you an angel yourself?