WHAT is SIN ? (Page 4)

Cenababy: Sara, do what you do. I rather live diff.

Cenababy: Crash either be respectful or stay out of my feeds!

Cenababy: Marriage, the reasons they dont work or arent happy is a. People dont respect their marriages b. They marry for the wrong reasons, etc

tularcitas: Cena...I have no disrespect for the way you live your life...I have always liked you as a person...I just don't share a religious ethics by which you love your life..It works for you and in the end isn't that all that matters?

tularcitas: ^ live, not love!

Cenababy: Sara i think living a better or best is what counts. My actions now are way better than, then. It is important for anyone to be the best they can be. Ofcourse it is.

Zanjan: Furthermore, you don't know how great you can be until you try. Each person has their own hidden potential but what potential do we all share?

If the Creator hadn't set the standard - that is, what we all have the ability to do - how would we know where the envelope was? We have an instinct that says "push it"; if one no longer feels it, they've lost motivation. Like a jetliner that's stalled while still in the air, the odds of gliding back to earth smoothly instead of crashing are a billion to one.

Zanjan: By the way, I chose "jetliner" because no man is an island - there's a full load of people in your life who each are affected by whatever you do.

SplendorofYah: Sin is an error that creates blockages or separation between man and Source (G-d).

David Nathaniel: The English word "devil" comes from the Greek "diabolos" which Paul uses as a title for sin in flesh. The devil is man. Man is born of flesh and sin in flesh being the devil man is born of the devil hence the need to become born again of the spirit to be adopted of God the Father of immortals and those who would become immortal. The fleshly mind of man is the mind of the serpent with its *"Lust of the flesh, lust of the eye and the pride of life."* When you see these 3 in man that is *sin.*
Jesus recognised sin in flesh as the "devil" and appointed by God willingly had it crucified for the faithful. So that whomever believes in the one who overcame the "devil" (sin in the flesh} would receive eternal life. That is the contract and mechanics of it.

Zanjan: I prefer to apply biological realities, using modern machinery, and a language that has more words in it than the ancients knew.

Zanjan: So, let's try that.

"Man is born of flesh".

Ancients didn't have a word for " physical" yet. That made it difficult to describe the transformation from "materialism" to "spirituality", despite having a word for "spirit". They were aware that everything has a spirit - it's the higher grade of spirit they needed to learn more about.

"The devil is man"

Not quite. The hu-man is born an animal - innocent via ignorance, he's earth-bound. This is the ground we all spring from. When the individual rises above his first nature (instinct), then he's on his way to becoming man.

This implies he possesses a higher grade of inborn nature that will show itself (his second nature), informing him of its presence. When it does, the human is no longer innocent. He then seeks to regain his lost innocence but doesn't know how.

The recognition of this duality is essential to development, since only the second nature can have a relationship with God. Not until this creature chooses to permanently dwell in the arena of his higher nature will he be able to reflect the attributes of God. That is the man.

Technically, the human aspect continues to whisper from below - no one can remove instinct since the emotions belong to it. To the man, this is the "soil" he emerged from. To return to ego is sinful. Thus, the devil is within, yet man has power over it.

Jesus told the Jews, what they had to do to access that power - leave the one behind and embrace the other. When Mary, Jesus's mother, kept things secretly in her heart, she was gestating them. "Birth" is the best metaphor to describe "arrival".

In the end, it all boils down to what Splendor just said.

David Nathaniel:
The Serpent in the flesh shows itself in individuals in all the colours of its skin. It manifests itself in all the deceptions men practise upon themselves and one another. Its most insidious and dangerous manifestations emanate from the pulpit, and ecclesiastical thrones. In these, the Serpent presents himself to mankind, presumptuously entertaining them with things he does not understand. From thence he delights them with the assurance of wisdom upon principles in harmony with their nature. "God doth not mean", saith he, "exactly what He says. Trouble not your consciences about the letter of His word. He knows that the circumstances in which you are placed prevent a rigid construction of it. Besides, the times are changed, and the world is better than it used to be. He takes the will for the deed. The spirit is everything; the letter is nothing; for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. Eat, then, and drink, and be merry. Be diligent in business, fervent in the cause of your church, serving your clergy; and when you die, ye shall be as gods in the elysian fields!"
But the serpent in the flesh manifests itself in all the high places of the earth. It obtrudes itself upon all occasions, and through all the channels of human life. Popes, cardinals, and priests; bishops, ministers, and deacons; emperors, kings, and presidents; with all who sustain them, and execute their behests, are but the fleshly media through which the thinking of the flesh finds expression. They are "the high things that exalt themselves against the knowledge of God", which are to be cast down (2 Cor. 10:5). They are faithless of this knowledge, which they make of no effect by their traditions; and "whatsoever is not of faith is sin"

Zanjan: "The Serpent in the flesh"

The Bible doesn't say that. The OT says the serpent was more subtle (or cunning) than any beast that God had made. This implies God didn't make it, further suggesting humans had contrived it though their own thoughts.

The Hebrew Bible applies the word 'serpent' to a number of different things, ranging from personal temptation to nasty individuals to actual cities. It issues from ancient Mesopotamian mythology.

The NT uses the term "serpent" to describe the traits of a snake but didn't confine itself to one animal likeness....it uses all sorts of animal characteristics, even applying them to Jesus, Himself, and the Holy Ones.

Apparently, society still isn't past comparing certain persons to well-known animals.

David, when quoting a source, please provide the author's name. Clergy are by no means any authority on truth - they're flawed, like everyone else. There's nothing worse than to hear a modern speak in imitated ancient Biblical phraseology. That's so broken!

David Nathaniel: The Serpent was one of "the living things that moved upon the earth", and which the Lord God pronounced "very good". Moses says, it was more subtle, or shrewd, than any of the creatures the Lord God had made. Human nature, or "sinful flesh", has three principal channels through which it displays its waywardness against the law of God. These are expressed by "the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life". All that is in the world stands related to these points of our nature; and there is no temptation that can be devised, but what assails it in one, or more, of these three particulars. The world without is the seducer, which finds in all animal men, unsubdued by the law and testimony of God, a sympathizing and friendly principle, ready at all times to eat of its forbidden fruit. This sinful nature we inherit. It is our misfortune, not our crime, that we possess it. We are only blameworthy when, being supplied with the power of subduing it, we permit it to reign over us. This power resides in "the testimony of God" believed; so that we "are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation" (1 Pet. 1:5). This testimony ought to dwell in us as it dwelt in the Lord Jesus; so that, as with the shield of faith, the fiery assaults of the world may be quenched (Eph. 6:16) by a "thus it is written", and a "thus saith the Lord".

Cenababy: The NT uses the term "serpent" to describe the traits of a snake but didn't confine itself to one animal likeness....it uses all sorts of animal characteristics, even applying them to Jesus, Himself, and the Holy Ones.

Excuse me? No! Satan was not a snake #1, satan walked, now could satan posses a snake? YES. We must look closer at the intent of the bible.

For instance, GOD CREATED ALL!

now, you might ask why. As in Job for instance, satan is Gods adversary, he said he could turn Job against God, God said try, satan failed. God knows all and the whys.

David Nathaniel: "Satan/Lucifer/Devil" < These are all titles attributed by God to man and are not mythical creatures.

Zanjan: Cena: "Satan was not a snake #1,"

Did Jesus call the clergy Satan? No, He called them "serpents, vipers" in the same sentence. Did He call Herod Satan? Nope, He called him a sly fox. Did Jesus ever mention Lucifer? Nope, never.

"For instance, GOD CREATED ALL!"

All creatures in existence. He didn't create a void. Yet can we say "look, there's a void!" ? We recognize something by contrast - that is, by comparison. Existence is recognized by non-existence. For example, courage in one thing is recognized by its absence elsewhere. We wouldn't know what a void was unless the substance of light existed.

" satan is Gods adversary"

God has no peers, no challengers, no competition. Thus, it's impossible for Him to have an adversary. Why would He create His own adversary? No, Satan is man's adversary - that is, whatever error man makes in his/her judgment, that error blocks him/her from advancing towards God.

Do the errors of man influence God, do they harm or hurt Him, or cause Him to change any of His ways or thoughts? Does man command God? Does Satan take charge of God's affairs?

Cenababy: Zan, did you miss Job? Satan is an adversary......Satan, also known as the Devil, is an entity in the Abrahamic religions ...... Hebrew: שָּׂטָן (sâtan), meaning " enemy" or "adversary"; , Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. ,
“Satan” literally means “adversary" or "opponent/accuser" (In Ancient Hebrew ..., The Hebrew word satan [f'f] means "an adversary, one who resists." It is translated as "Satan" eighteen times in the Old Testament, fourteen of those occurrences being in Job 1-2, the others in 1 Chronicles 21:1 and Zechariah 3:1-2. There is some dispute as to whether it should be taken as a proper name or a title. In Job and Zechariah the definite article precedes the noun (lit., "the satan" or "the accuser, while satan is not Gods adversary in Job but Jobs adversary clearly God knows he is trying to destroy Jobs love of God. Satan's whole purpose is to take us from God to destroy our bond.

Cenababy: Hence why our world is like it is!!!!

Cenababy: Satan in Genesis? the serpent in Genesis chapter 3 was Satan. Satan was either appearing as a serpent, possessing the serpent, or deceiving Adam and Eve into believing that it was the serpent who was talking to them. Serpents / snakes do not possess the ability to speak. Revelation 12:9 and 20:2 both describe Satan as a serpent. "He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years" (Revelation 20:2).

Zanjan: Cena: "Zan, did you miss Job?"

Not at all. The story is a poem. The difference between a parable and a narrative is the parable doesn't name the individual its about. Art form, like talking animals, helps the immature. Thus, personification was widely used across the whole of the ancient world. That doesn't mean WE need to use it.

As other scriptures attest, Job was a real person with a real life but NOT a Jew. He lived quite some time before Moses. No one knows who wrote the book of Job, which appeared around the 6th century B.C., in the form as traditionally told to the Jews.

The principles are universal and the idea of form is to get the moral of the story across in the most effective way. Getting caught up in details distracts from the point.

Satan has many names - they all refer to evil. Define evil any way you wish. I prefer to use God's definition of it; so, only a Revelator can clarify that. From the Revelator, evil is that which is NOT of God so doesn't belong to God. It's the word used to describe distance from God.

Evil is "absence" - it's the shadow cast by the presence of the flame; the flame is real, the shadow is the void.