What is a Christian? (Page 4)

Zanjan: They took positions during the war (a choice of two) - Irish Christians fighting against Irish Christians to the death, blowing each other up. This wasn't WW2 - it was just an island in the so called developed world, with the only foreigners being British - not refugee scum but British who were trying to create order in the land. They were attacked too.

Newspapers around the world published photos of their young children carrying military issue sub machine guns with orders to "defend" themselves from attackers by shooting to kill. They were all very bigoted against each other.

Of course, each had their excuses but none of them involved God or Jesus. It doesn't surprise me that out of this particular Christian-dominated country, would come a vote for gay marriage.

I've never heard a Christian say "We do not know these people".

Zanjan: In short, to be a Christian is to recognize Christ and to obey the Will of God.

chronology: Most Americans know very little about Ireland Zan, but educated political aware Americans virtually all agree there will be no progress for a lasting peace in Ireland so long as England continues it's occupation of Northern Ireland.

Most Europeans agree with Americans about this, most people in England have no interest one way or the other. England's military and Intelligence community however have no plans to leave Ireland and see no reason to make any. It is unlikely Parliament will ever be inclined to go through all the paperwork and debates needed to withdraw from Ulster so there you have it.

What you need is a Richard Nixon who can have the energy and imagination to resolve the problem.

Personally Zan I think Americans are correct, but there is no inclination among England's social groups in politics or the military to make any start in resolving the subject.

And when you see the price Mr Nixon paid for winning peace in Indochina, who in politics wants to follow his fate?

S W l N E:
TheDoctor. I posted the post you're referring to, not Chronology.

There is always risk with refugees and immigrants, hence why the US refused hundreds of jewish refugees entry.

There are laws too but I'm referring directly to the biblical viewpoint of the issue. Australia and many other countries are secular. Meaning it's not going to have bible-based laws or ne influenced ny religious institutions.

Was it those verses which influenced your stance on refugees or immigrants or was it just your individual human nature? Because I see a lot of vocal christians press for antiabortion laws. Even if the woman's life is at risk. I see antihomosexuality laws. All these self proclaimed biblical laws but very rarely these that are more liberal.

Even looking at the political leaning of those in the US where christians are more on the conservative side while the liberal leanings is closer to what you'll expect from bible-Jesus.

That's not to say there are no Christians who are liberal or working towards that 'love everyone' mantra. Only that they're doing so due to human nature and their personality and not down to the bible.

Zanjan: Point: referring to the Bible for guidance on modern political policies is insane.

They had no idea what we're up against. WW3 is a guerilla war with unique tactics that require unique solutions. Unless we each have a military/police/forensic psychiatric/polysci background we ALL need to stay out of those decisions.

Point: Abortion wasn't an issue in the ancient world. Prevention and respect for life was. A fetus is life. It's not rocket science to understand that if the whole country has any respect for humane treatment and preservation of any life form, it certainly must extend to a human fetus, first and foremost. All religions of God are one on that issue.

Thus, God's servants don't need a civil law for this - secular society does. Civil law is based on the majority's wishes.

chronology: Zan if you want to live in a society where religious people of any religioun make the laws, then I really do wonder at your ability to think streight.

If you have the respectable educated well organised churches like the Church of England making Laws, then they have a heritage going back a thousand years and more of checks and ballances. If you want these so called 'independand' churches or 'do it your self' churches holding courts and trials, then I really question your sanity.

Thank God for the U.S. Congress I say. Do you really want the Dark Ages back?

Zanjan: I wasn't suggesting that religions run civil government - they have enough on their hands running their own organizations.

Clarification: the civil laws are legislated by a MAJORITY (of votes). Elected officials represent the people and are supposed to reflect the people's wishes.

Religions are supposed to promote the highest model of virtue. So, when we have a people who are far more civilized than the rest, the civil laws will change to meet that degree of intellect out of sheer shame. No country wants to be viewed as barbaric.

chronology: Zan, I cannot believe you just posted that. Are the people of New York impressed by the 'high moral standards of Islam' after 911? Are the fine men and women of the ATF impressed by the high moral standards of David (the scumbag) Koresh? are the people of Texas planning to raise their legal standards to The Branch Dividian level?

Zan, no disrespect, but you really say some strange things.

Zanjan: That has nothing to do with terrorist attacks; I was talking about society in general, which, globally, is at its nadir.

No wonder it produces terrorists, school shooters, serial killers, drunks, anarchists, rioters, ruthless corporations, the sex trade and gambling industry, an endless count of scams, poaching and industrial pollution. THAT's just in 'developed' countries that are at peace. People are drowning. Too many suicides. All of that is a product of uncivilized society.

Zanjan: As you can see, civilization isn't restricted to technology. It's all about what we do with the knowledge we have.

Of course, it's not all gloom - a light is shining in the dark, and growing. A new race of people are rising, building a new civilization. It's all very quiet and subtle, laced into all levels of society.

briansmythe: were are these pole Zanjan , this new race of people that are rising to build a new Civilation , Do u know there name or where there head courters is wouldnt mind having a look at the blueprints
lol

chronology: Zan modern society has it's faults, no question about that. But you left out just a few aspects of modern society. If I visited Washington State or Oregon I could eat in a Restaurant with confidence that the food and the establishment were clean and healthy places to eat. Thanks to the fine work of State and Federal Health Inspectors. If you were unfortunate enough to have an accident the hospital and doctors who dealt with you would be among the finest in the world, and your travel insurance would cover the cost.

Are there problems with modern society? yes of course, but down in Dixie fine Southern Belles are doing their best to improve life for all citizens in Tennessee and Kentucky and Georgia. They are trying to improve the lives of minimum wage folks and end the slide into third world like divisions among Americans.

Mr Trump wants to dismantle the U.S. Federal Government, well good with that because if he does virtually all the millions of tourists who visit America at the moment will avoid the country. A nation without food and drink inspectors? traffic safety officers? Fire safety officers? At the moment America is probably the safest healthiest places in the world to visit. If the GOP keep chopping and hacking at Federal and State budgets it will join the list of countries where you are advised not to drink the water from taps, don't eat food in certain districts, conduct cash transactions outside large hotels, and never visit local hospitals unless absolutely necessary.

Right now Zan you can buy a TV Dinner, cook it in a micro wave, and be sure it and the micro wave are perfectly safe. And the California Orange Juice is safe to drink it with.

Zanjan: Brian, refer to scripture - "they'll be known by their fruits". Guess you don't know any. Then again, who could blame you for being distracted by all the evil noise-makers? Hardly anything good is carried by the media these days.

I guess goodness doesn't sell or draw in advertising income.

Zanjan: Chron, society isn't confined to North America. The world is a global village so all are affected by the greater forces operating in it right now. Even remote native tribesman wear T-shirts these days.

Mr. Trump is still learning how to defend "covfefe"

chronology: Huh? you mean there is life outside New York City?

Cenababy: oi vey

TheDoctor394: Sorry, Swine. My brain must have been half asleep in identifying who asked me what.

I really don't have much of a stance on the immigration thing at all, since, as I said, I really haven't thought much about it. I should also point out that, while I certainly do refer to the Bible in support of certain views I have, I sometimes have a view that I simply just have. It would most likely have Biblical support, but it's not like I go around thinking, "Well, the Bible says that,so that's my view" all the time.

I suppose I think we should be as helpful to others as much as possible, but also making sure we look after ourselves, and those around us, making sure we don't put others in unnecessary danger. Therefore, there has to be a balance on letting people into countries.

briansmythe: Yes its the Politions Zanjan like ive said before and people smugglers they protect ,Suppose that's who ur reffering too with your new race of people a new society I know you
lol

briansmythe: Sorry they were on the wrong thread cel , LOL this place makes me laugh

Cenababy: Doc exactly

shadowline: I haven't read this whole thread, but, the original question is interesting.

A Christian is someone who believes in salvation through Christ. Liking the values Christ preached, or the wise things he said, does not make a person a Christian.

I would say myself that a Christian must be a believer in four things: God, the Divine inspiration of the Bible, the Divinity of Christ, and salvation through Christ.

Some would say that the third item is not necessary - that, for example, Jehovah's Witnesses qualify - and I can understand that. But most Christians have believed in Christ's Divinity, and have been of the opinion that redemption cannot have happened unless Christ was Divine.

In the Western world Christianity is undergoing great changes today - disappearing, some would say - and seems to survive in some societies in a very non-literal form, sort of a cultural inheritance rather than an actual belief. In time that may come to be seen as Christianity too.

But for twenty centuries or so, Christianity has meant belief in those four things.

Zanjan: That would be from a societal point of view. What is God's view? What was the early Christian teaching? I think it's easy to say what a Christian is, not so easy to answer "What does it mean to be a Christian?"

Corinthians 13: 1-13

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal..........."