Self Defense, Biblical versus murder (Page 2)

Crash: You didn't answer it. Your "answer" was a non-answer. If you honestly don't see that...you are kinda lost. Or being severely intellectually dishonest right now. I mean ...haha just look at what you typed....it's clearly not an answer to the question posed. You simply just don't want to answer the question methinks. Either because you have no answer or you just don't want to.

Simply be intellectually honest and say that.

My contention is there is insufficient evidence to justify a belief in any God or Gods. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "Good one but no cigar." That's absolutely meaningless unless you are indirectly making a truth claim, saying in fact God does exist.

If that is the case....I would ask you to provide me with evidence.

Zanjan: You posted while I was editing, changing it to "Fast" one. I can't do your thinking for you.

Crash: ".and yet aren't out actively raping, murdering, or enslaving people. The millions of Atheists that aren't in jail right now because they are good people because morals"

They're not in jail because they haven't been caught yet. Not being in jail isn't a sign of morals - it's a sign that one doesn't want a criminal record, nor to lay out the money to lawyers to prove their innocence in a duel against false accusers. Alas, most people in jail have ADD.

Morals are something one chooses to maintain even where there is no law - they're based on actions that are in the best interest of all, including generations going forward. If one thinks they know what those are every time, they need only to look at the political arena, to those they hire to speak for them.

"Also ..the POW camp analogy was a really bad one. Trying to conflate prisoners of war....with slavery is ridiculous. Surely you have a more credible argument."

Where do you think they got their slaves from - gave birth to them?

Zanjan: As for your OT citation, that's an historical event, taken out of context. Neither does it say anything about rape or making the females their wives. Jews weren't supposed to marry pagans or have sex outside marriage. Virgins were likely children, including males, or very ugly old maids/geezers.

You might read back a bit to find out what those tribes were doing. They'd attacked the Jews first. I wont go into the list of rotten, brutal things they were known for but they were unteachable, rejected all attempts at peace treaties, and refused to be civilized.

Lets make a comparison to ISIS - except there were no mightily armed, allied countries to clear out the riff raff for them.

You don't bargain with the devil; likewise, you don't talk with ISIS leaders - it's way too late for words.

The reason the children of the bad guys were killed is the same as now - if they weren't, they grow up with an excuse and ravaging hatred to rally other tribes with lies and come back on them. Call it quality control in a world that was at constant war. Point - the Jews won because the bad guys weren't smart.

Cenababy: Lol ^^^^

Crash: Absolutely called it. You don't personally agree with the passage ...so it's "out of context" typical canned response from a christian that has no other logical rebuttal.

Explain to me if only religious people can be "Moral" then why do the stats represent that most people incarcerated in the US consider themselves religious. Hmmmm odd. Atheists represent the lowest fraction of incarcerated people. Weird. If all you religious people are so moral and all.

It does indeed not directly mention rape. However you would have to be absolutely retarded to not infer what was going to happen to said women.

Regardless of what the tribe was doing...Pls provide a citation to back up your claim on that btw. It in no way gives license to murder women and innocent children. Then take as trophies/property the virgins.

Many ways to obtain a slave. Yes...some were born into it. Others were sold. To think that slaves only result as an after effect of war is ridiculous thinking.

Regardless of all these linguistic gymnastics you are performing. It is all rendered moot when you say that your god is "The god of love." Yet condones all these horrid things. You really can't have it both ways.

As fun as this has been dealing with your non answers and deflections....I must be off to work now. You take care and try to practice a little more intellectual honesty in the future and less apologetics.

Cenababy: Crash, I invite you to leave! If you don't like the posts in forums by me, then why bother? And, what I meant by typical athiest is this, always gutting a God YOU DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IN!!!! Secondly Zan is not Christian, so there's that. Thirdly, if you find offense to the Christian things I post about, stay away, that's your choice, but to come in here, goading, insulting, laughing at or anything else you do, I will delete you! Not worth my while to put up with the intolerance of athiests. I am a Christian, if you have a problem with that, that's your baggage not mine. NOW THEN, if you want to actually try to understand why it is I believe what I do, without argument, then that's another deal. But for you to come on here simply to be AN ASS, yes I said it, there is no excuse. Stick to the religion room with all the other nasties that I have blocked, same as I have you blocked in there! and finally NOW that I am on a computer, what does your blathering have to do with the subject matter!

Zanjan: Crash: "typical canned response from a christian that has no other logical rebuttal."

Cena is correct - I was never a Christian so, I have no bias. I'm also very good at reading.

"why do the stats represent that most people incarcerated in the US consider themselves religious. "

Americans have learned that if they say they're "born again", and carry around a Bible, their time in the can will be reduced. I've seen it happen, myself. I also personally knew a guy who raped 2 girls under age 10. (his step-daughters) He got a year; in jail, he suddenly found God so, was out in 6 months. A month later, he was seen walking with a woman and her little girl.

"Atheists represent the lowest fraction of incarcerated people"

Actually, the highest fraction of incarcerated people are those with ADD, FAS and mental disorders. Some of them are gang members, drug addicts and serial killers. Clearly, they're not on God's side.

Zanjan: "you would have to be absolutely retarded to not infer what was going to happen to said women."

You might want to pull your head out of the gutter and see some blue sky once in awhile.

"Regardless of what the tribe was doing...Pls provide a citation to back up your claim on that btw."

It's half of the story of Exodus (a collusion of tribes). Sorry to hear you missed it. I'm not going to type it out for you.

" when you say that your god is "The god of love."

Sometimes, you have to be cruel to be kind. Yes, God loves, that doesn't mean He has to like everybody too. There is only ONE God and he doesn't like sissies/ cowards. Neither do I.

Zanjan: A fun & easy read: "The Bible for Dummies". Highly recommended. I give it two thumbs up.

Zanjan: "you are an apologist for an evil book"

It's not for me to apologize for that. I believe in and support the Word of God - not man's. However, I do accept the general history, written by men, because neither you or I have reason to argue.

The Bible was accurate enough that the spiritual principles got through - so many that we can compare the Word of God elsewhere and, at different times, to verify their consistency; also, accurate enough that Archeologists could find what they were looking for. Unlike you, they were actually looking.

""There is only ONE God." Please back up that truth claim with evidence"

I have. Refer to the topics in this Forum which speak to that.

Let's get something straight here, Crash - you're a self-admitted atheist. Know your place! As far as God and His Angels are concerned, you can fry. I've just been humoring you so, don't push your luck. My patience does have an end, just like God's does.

Cenababy: Crash your tone mak s you add, i dont like your bullying style!

Cenababy: * makes, * ass

Crash: It's ok Cena ...I Screen Shotted the entire thread because I knew you would delete my posts. LOL . You have also just made yourself look weak and afraid to have actual debate. You feel confident to spew dogmatic hate and bs. But when someone comes to refute your obvious lies and delusions you censor them because they show a light on your true nature and motivations.

You are a bad representative of your faith and an absolute hypocrite. Now pls excuse me whilst i go post everything you just deleted in my own thread. So people can see the true face of the intolerant , hypocritical, weak "Christian."

Bubye sweetie

Zanjan: Aww, he needed a keepsake for himself.

Cenababy: Lol zan

HydroMan: "The millions of Atheists that aren't in jail right now because they are good people because morals are somewhat innate in nature. Or the individuals or groups that haven't even read or know nothing of the bible"

Where do atheists get their morals from? From an atheist point of view, morals come, not from a supernatural Being, but a natural process of events (evolution). And there is a problem with this; If morality is a by-product of evolution, then how can we humans trust any of our morals in the first place? ie If naturalism and atheism is true, then the great human mind is nothing more than the result of blind chance and evolution (our thought processes, including the ability to make moral decisions, are mere accidents). So if this is the case, then how can we humans trust our brain to make moral, intellectual, and rational decisions? We can’t. For instance, to say, “That was wrong”, is merely the result of the changes of chemical states in the brain. So before an atheist makes an attack on Christian morality and where Christians get their morals from (the Bible), perhaps they ought to examine the origins of their own morality (where do their own morals come from) and see whether or not they are logically sound.

HydroMan: “Because you just can't bring your deluded minds to admit that the God of the Christian bible is an evil sadistic asshat....and worship a god...that condones and commands Murder, Rape, Slavery, Genocide, Infanticide, the Consuming of Babies, and the Suppression of women. If you TRULY think THAT THING is a "Loving God" i sincerely feel sorrow for you”

You are making the argument that evil exists and it real. However, an atheist cannot complain about the existence of evil, and use that as an argument against the existence and goodness of God (such as the God from the Bible), unless they can first legitimately assert the existence of evil in the world, that is, they must first be able to show that their judgments about the existence of evil are warranted. And an atheist cannot do this because their very existence is unwarranted (the result of blind unguided processes and purposeless mechanisms). For instance, if humans are physical systems of matter and energy, then any recognition of moral responsibility and need of justice is irrational and unwarranted; as humans are merely physical systems (humans are no greater than a pile of rocks or a cockroach because everything has come into existence through the same unplanned meaningless process of events)

Yes, evil exists. But in order to recognize something as evil (rape, murder etc), one must first legitimately assert the existence of evil in the world – something that can’t be done from an atheistic point of view because their very existence has no legitimately (before accusing the God from the Bible as evil, first ask yourself, ‘why do I think anything is evil in the first place’)

Crash: Yes Hydro....and what is Wrong with no ULTIMATE meaning? Seriously ...what's wrong with that? Why do ya'll need Ultimate meaning?!

Zanjan: Dogs don't have an ultimate meaning - are we dogs?