On the study of Religions (Page 5)

Sage of Bryan: Zan. Christ began the His church on the day of Pentecost shortly after His death. He and He alone was the head of said church. The apostles were all of the same rank. The apostles were first called Christians at Antiock.

About 325 A.D. Constantine was the Roman Emperor. His empire was starting to unravel. He assumed that he could hold his empire together under the sway of a church. He chose Christianity.

But, the peoples in his far-flung empire would not embrace Christianity unless they could keep their pagan beliefs. No problem. He began the Catholic church which was a Christian pagan religion.

No where did Christ or the apostles teach that Mary was to be worshiped. Catholics worship Mary. Christ said He was the intercessor between God and man. Catholics believe Mary is the intercessor between Man and Christ. Nowhere does Christ nor the apostles teach that Mary was fathered by God. Catholics believe Mary had an immaculate conception.

I could list much more but , you should be able to get the point by now. .

chronology: Frankly saige, I couldn't care less what catholics believe, 'leave em to it' I say. We should thank God tho that the United States Government holds political and social power in America.

Religious groups show their true ugly face when they have power over a society. Like I say, thank God every day for the Government in Washington. It may have some faults, but trust me, it is light years ahead of the 'Hearts of Darkness' that run religions. You cannot put a price on the freedom Americans enjoy.

Sage of Bryan: True enough chron. But I've got started on this and I desire to follow it through. So hang onto your hat. Or as you so aptly put, "Boot and Rally"

Sage of Bryan: Zan. Christ built His church. It is called the Church of God.several times in the new testament. The word Christian appears three times in the new testament KJV.

In Acts, we are introduced to a one Simon Magus. He was also known as Simon the Sorcerer. He believed the apostle's preaching , was baptized and became a Christian. He then tried to purchase the gift of the Holy Spirit from Peter and Paul and was rebuked for it.

No more is wrote of him in the bible. (KJV) In the history books, he turns up in Rome. He wanted to start a Christian church,which he does. But he does not allow Christ to be the head of this church. He appoints himself the head of this church. He becomes the first Bishop(or pope) of Rome. It is Simon Magus and not Simon Peter whom you seem confused about..

The second commandment states Thou shalt make no graven image to bow down to it. The Catholic have a huge image of St Peter in Vatican Square whom the believers bow to and also kiss the big toe of one foot.

Here's how the Catholic's get around this. In the Catholic bible, they have taken the second commandant and threw it away. They then divided in two, the tenth commandment. Check it out for yourself. Do not believe everything I post. Go to the source and read for yourself.

Sage of Bryan: De,tha-de tha-de tha-de tha-de tha-de tha--de tha-de tha deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

William Tell Overture

Sorry folks, just couldn't help but throw that in the mix.

Sage of Bryan: Most posters know that I am as serious as the occasion calls for. But at heart, I am a humorous and witty person.

Most of my words, both written and oral, are laced with humor, and I use my humor most sagaciously. Sagaciously....... where the hell did I come up with that...? Sounds kinda uppity.

ghostgeek: Was Peter a fisherman, or was he the sidekick of James? As the letters of Paul, those judged to be authentic, are considered to be the earliest Christian writings, surely what they say should take preeminence over the Roman fiction fiction of the Gospels. And as far as I can see, Paul makes no mention of Peter ever being a fisherman.

ghostgeek: But Peter is most definitely pictured as being James's sidekick.

Sage of Bryan: ghost. There is no mention in the bible (Paul or otherwise) concerning Peter's trade. So your statement is true. Sidekick of James...? Agreement. I concur.

There is made mention (more than once) of Peter being in a boat fishing. I assume that was his trade.

One day, Christ and Peter were walking along a road. The subject of taxes came up. Christ told Peter to go and cast an hook into the lake, and the first fish that comes up,open his mouth and take out the coin and go pay the tax. This tells me that Peter knew what a fishing pole, line and hook was, and how to use such.

Seven of the apostles were fishermen. Matthew was a tax collector. The trade Judas Iscariot (the betrayer) and three other apostles is not recorded. And, Moses was a con-man. I know that...!!! Send me a ticket already. I'll go...I'll go...

Sage of Bryan: Zanjanio...zanjanio... wherefore art thou zanjanio...? Come'st thou before me and layest thy posts before mine eyes.

Thou hast opened up thy can-of-worms before me concerning Peter. Thou now must needs make haste and convince me of thy words. Thou art an excellent blogger. Thou seemeth quite knowledgeable. Tarry not. Come'st thou and seal'est mine mouth with thy words.

If you care not to do this, then, what the hell, let's enjoy life and let tomorrow take care of its self..

ghostgeek: Tomorrow has a habit of taking care of itself, but not always in the way we would wish.

Zanjan: Sage: "Christ began the His church on the day of Pentecost.

You've been misinformed. The Pentacost is the 40th day after Christ's crucifixion (the Bible is big on 40 days for transformations). It was first day the Apostles rose to boldly teach the Faith to the general public. So, it's not correct to say that was the beginning of the church; before that day, the church was a quiet, underground movement. There were 'secret' Christians. This is the way all the religions of God started.

Constantine recognized that the pagans believed in some truths; no one owns the truth. THAT is why he was successful in convincing the pagans that reality is one. Some pagan rituals were synced later due to relativity and convenience.

The Great Schism of 1054 AD between the eastern and western branches of the church is how the Roman Catholic church came to be identified. This was reflective of how Christianity slid into the darkness. Division is the result of blindness, due to selfishness and ill-motivated individuals.

A bishop has never been a pope. The Catholic church has its first pope listed as Linus.

Sage of Bryan: You got that right.. I've been disappointed by many tomorrows, getting way less than what I expected. .

Sage of Bryan: Christ said he would build (future) His church. He did not build His church while He walked the earth as a man. He told His disciples to remain in Jerusalem until they received power from on high.

That power came on the day of Pentacost as recorded in Acts. Peter gave a powerful sermon on that day and abut three-thousand souls were added to the Church which was started that day.

chronology: Zan, Pentecost was the arrival of the Holy Spirit to embolden the new believer's to teach the Good News about Jesus Christ.
Without the Spirit present in believer's they are powerless to teach anything about Salvation.

Sage of Bryan: Zanjan. I seem to sense a problem here. You seem to knowledgeable and to decent to always being picky, picky pickying about everything that I and others post.

From now on, I'll post my opinions and if you desire to picky, picky, pick them apart, I'll no longer defend my position. So, knock yourself out kind lady. You have my blessing..

Sage of Bryan: chron, that's how I perceive the words in Acts. Jolly good show.

Zanjan: Sage: "Zanjan. I seem to sense a problem here. "

Well, I think instead of interpret. Could that be your problem? Personally, I'm only concerned about accuracy of history and text, not with the differences that various denominations insist on maintaining. Although I've occasionally addressed you, the bulk of my posts are for all readers.

The Holy Spirit was with Christ at all times - that means the power was with His disciples as long as He was on earth.

Jesus was still on earth, walking around with the disciples freely when He sent them to teach the Faith. That's what they did - they taught, then reported back to Christ. So, how can anyone pretend the church didn't exist or wasn't in its formative period before Pentacost??

The Pentacost marks the end of obscurity and the beginning of what humans do with the nascent religion God has delivered to them. A leader means *someone who's out in front*, who's on the cutting edge, doing what others aren't. To each, their own gifts.

Jesus made no administrative provisions whatsoever, no mention of popes or priests, elections or appointments. So, organizational design was left up to the congregations, based on Peter's personal example, and only on Peter's example. Peter chose the terms. We know that didn't last very long in historical time. Then again , neither does the formative period (building process- not to be confused with expansion).

chronology: Zan, the Holy Spirit allows people to understand the message of Christ. Some one like ghost, no offence ghost Old Chap, just using you as an example. Ghost could have been in the U.S.A. during one of Billy Graham's Crusade meetings. He could have stood listening to Dr Graham for the half hour Gospel message and made no sense of it at all. But if the Holy Spirit opened his understanding to the meaning in the words, he may decide to take a step towards believing. Dr Graham has a very interesting book on the Holy Spirit and how the Spirit opens peoples minds to understanding and later how to live properly as a believer. It is worth remembering the Holy Spirit is not Wisdom, Wisdom is a seperate entity and has a different Agenda. She leads whoever follows her to way deeper understanding of life and spiritual things. Some say Wisdom is actually an Angel, but who knows. She is also the only Feminine person named in the Higher Persons of God's immediate circle. You can read all about Her in Job. Even Jesus refers to Wisdom as 'She' .

ghostgeek: I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't get the three into one notion: God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost. Folks have this tendency to talk about Jesus sitting on the right hand of God, which doesn't make a lot of sense. That would mean God is sitting on the right hand of Himself while, presumably, He is also flying above His own head as the Holy Ghost. Totally bonkers.

Sage of Bryan: chron. You hit the nail right on the thumb. Christ said, none can come to Him except the Father draw that person.

When God draws a person to Christ, He opens their mind to understanding. Other's whom follow Christ around and were not drawn by God, have eyes that see not, ears that hear not.

It take faith to understand God, Christ and the bible. Not our faith, but the faith that comes from God. That faith is a free gift to those whom God draws.

Sage of Bryan: ghost. My understanding is that God and Christ are the only two Beings in the God family at this time. The Holy Ghost or Spirit is a force that exists or flows between them. They use this force in creating.

chronology: Sage. I have 'no beef' on the subject, as they say. But it is not possible to read Scripture and not see The Holy Spirit as a distinct Personality. Paul says 'The Spirit clearly says that in ....... etc. The Holy Spirit told Paul to 'seperate for Me etc.......' these are not the attributes of a 'force' like magnetism, it is without question the fact of Personality.

Sage of Bryan: chron. I feel that if the Holy Spirit is a person, then Christ prayed to the wrong Father. The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and she became pregnant, which would make the Holy Spirit the Father of Christ.

Christ say's I and the Father are one. He does not say, I and my Father and the Holy Spirit are one.

Sage of Bryan: ghost. In the beginning, Christ and God were on equal footing. Christ gave up His place and came to earth and was born of Mary thus becoming a flesh and blood human.

He died, was resurrected, and became the first born son of God. The first born always sits on the right hand of the father.

When Rachel bore Benjamin, she named him Benomi, son of my sorrow. She died in childbirth. Jacob renamed him Benjamin, son of my right hand. The eldest always sits on the right hand. That was Ruben's chair. He lost it when he slept with Jacob's concubine. The chair was passed to Benjamin.