which religion/belief is true? (Page 2)

elsafer
elsafer: Jesus claimed to be the great "I AM" not a prophet from God. He and the Father are ONE.....those are Jesus' words!
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Zanjan
Zanjan: So did Moses, Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha'ullah.

How could you think a personage of the highest rank would be unable to make a prophecy??? If they can, then they are also a Prophet. God doesn't always use the same terms we do. Ours is to know the Reality.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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elsafer
elsafer: maybe in your bible Moses claims to be God in the flesh......NOT in mine. Mohammad I understand to be of the line of Ishmael son of Hagar. Bahaullah mentioned in the Bible?
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elsafer
elsafer: John1 v 1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

John1v14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

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Zanjan
Zanjan: Yes, Baha'u'llah is in the Bible.......translation of His name is "The Glory of God".

Understand that the Greek word for "I Am" also means "It is I" , and "I Am Who I Am". This is the reference to the Revelator, the Divine Mediator of God's Word......does not refer to the identity of the subjective individual.

Thus, Jesus told the people He didn't say these things Himself - He heard His Father say them and told the people what His Father said, Word for Word. Thus, God spoke (in the first person) but Jesus was the recipient of His Voice.....He was God's Mouthpiece.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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elsafer
elsafer: John10v27-30 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
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elsafer
elsafer: Not my words......HIS
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Zanjan
Zanjan: This is true for ALL Revelators........when They appear, they come to find and collect the lost sheep, not the wicked. That's their job. If the sheep recognize their Master's voice, it's because they've heard it before.
"I will come to take you with me so you can be where I AM".
How do you think He does it?

The WORD of God. "The WORD" is the Creative power of Divine Knowledge released - that is, "Logos". Each letter of that Word, the moment spoken, causes something to be, and stirs life into the soul. This is the Light of the world, like the morning sun slowly rising.....men, like plants, have to adapt to it's increasing heat.

How can we measure the Word of God? Do we put it on our own scale, comparing our own standard to God's?

Baha'u'llah said that all the knowledge released in the past is comparable to three letters of the Alphabet. In this Day, even the young child is wiser than all the wise men of the past because God has released all of the remaining letters.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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elsafer
elsafer: Zan Jesus was NOT a "revelator"........Jesus came down as God in the flesh. He was 100% man and 100% God......

The Word was with God and the Word was God......

Don't know Bahaullah..........sorry. Have no idea what the man said
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Zanjan
Zanjan: You've got your math messed up there. By the way, God is NOT a man......and Jesus was, like any other human, once a fetus in the womb of His mother, born naturally. Jesus didn't create Himself. Neither did you.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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elsafer
elsafer: He came down to live among us in the flesh.....i.e. JESUS........it saddens me that ppl know so much about Him yet know so little of Him
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Zanjan
Zanjan: That's because it wasn't US that He came to live among. Even so, very few of Jesus's contemporaries recognized Him when He walked among them......interestingly, His enemies sure did and it didn't take very long either. His ministry was only 3 years.

This is proof that when God speaks, some believers really don't like that.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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Blackshoes
Blackshoes: LOL There no interpretation involved or could be ! Saint John stated it clear enough for a Second Grader to understand !

1 John 4:3

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
(Edited by Blackshoes)
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Who is a person of God? Just anyone who agrees with a story? I think not.

Even the Jews agree that Jesus was real and walked among them. Not a single Jew sees Jesus as hating God. Not a single Jew refuses to accept that Christianity is a genuine, monotheistic religion. Today, they're not the antichrist.
Since God has forgiven and rewarded them as promised, they are of God.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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Blackshoes
Blackshoes: No one that accepts Christ is a Antichrist ',other than those that deny that God came in the Flesh ',Whether they be Christian ,Jew ,or Muslin !
That means that God came in the Flesh
If you read the entire contexts of the Bible and of John n' 1 John it crystal clear !

Why else would John state such a thing .
Does anyone deny that your flesh and blood .
Does any one suggest you came from heaven .
Does anyone claim that you're God .
Does anyone claim that you were with God from the beginning .

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elsafer
elsafer: No one said the Jews were the antiChrist!!! God blinded the Jews to the Messiah so the rest of the world could be redeemed. God has a greater plan for the Jew.

The Jews asked for HIM to be crucified because HE CLAIMED TO BE GOD. NO one can deny Jesus was here.....what they do deny is who HE is.
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elsafer
elsafer: .and Jesus was, like any other human, once a fetus in the womb of His mother, born naturally. Jesus didn't create Himself. Neither did you.(Zan)

an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for [d]the Child who has been [e]conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for [f]He will save His people from their sins.” 22 Now all this [g]took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name [h]Immanuel,” which translated means, “God with us.” Matthew1v18-24

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chronology
chronology: Zan, with respect you are making some pretty sweeping statements on behalf of Jewish people. Also making some deep pronouncements on behalf of God.

Like I suggest, God will almost without doubt gather His faithful people from churches across the South and elsewhere to Himself and safety before allowing the Great Tribulation to begin. It would seem for the Jewish people, that will be 'The time of Jacobs trouble' spoken of by the Prophets.

It would be interesting to hear your views on this Zan.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: "HE CLAIMED TO BE GOD"

No He didn't....not even once. He claimed to be the Son of Man. Others said He was the Son of God, including the Jews. When the clergy asked Him about it, He admitted it was true that they were saying this. The Clergy were looking to trap Him in His words so called that answer blasphemy - the charge they used to condemn Him to death.

Does no one ever read the whole Bible anymore???

So, let's flesh this out:
If Jesus was God in the flesh, then the Text would have said "God in the flesh"....it didn't, not anywhere, not any time. It said "the Word" was made flesh. I wonder about those who change the words in scripture - where's the respect? You should think twice.

No scripture ever has said God could be made flesh, ever was or ever will be. There is absolutely no foundation, no divine support and not an iota of proof for that absurd assertion.

God is Absolute and Eternal: as such, it's not possible for Him to incorporate Himself into His own creation (a lesser existence), descending into the contingent world. That's why He sends Messengers.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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elsafer
elsafer: The gospel of John, which presents Jesus Christ in His deity, is sometimes called the "I AM" book. Over and over again in the book of John, Jesus said, "I AM." To the learned Jew this phrase "I AM" was very significant. It was a claim by Jesus that He is God. Why? In the Old Testament when God called Moses to lead the nation of Israel out of Egypt, He told Moses to tell the nation that "I AM" has sent you (Exodus 3:13-15). "I AM" is the covenant God of Israel, Jehovah! Therefore, the great "I AM" is the designation for God to the nation of Israel and Jesus' statement "I AM" is a clear indication that He was saying, "I AM God."
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Chron: "Also making some deep pronouncements on behalf of God. "

What I've said here is exactly what God has said through all of His Messengers, in particular, the last THREE. God sends His Messengers to unveil the Sun of Reality to mankind; this is because people mess up, they get strange notions and become confused. They've let the clergy mislead them; consequently, darkness settles in. The people fall spiritually asleep.

The clergy who are too prideful and dishonest to admit the blatant errors of their forerunners hold themselves proudly before God. That's how they've fallen from grace. You'd be wise not to make the same mistake.

The Great Tribulation for each religion has passed. The last battle WAS fought at Meggido; the British won and completed its mandate for Palestine, which established the State of Israel in 1948. Prophecy fulfilled, diaspora over. Jews returned to settle and rule in the land of their forefathers as God promised.

Can't change the glaring facts.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Elsa: "It was a claim by Jesus that He is God. "

There is no difference between Moses and Jesus. So if one claims that Jesus said "I Am God", then the same must be attributed to Moses as well. Moses said God would send another just like Him (Moses).......this is the strongest statement Christians have used to validate who Christ was. Moses didn't say God would send somebody of higher rank or better than Him.

Christians have never understood the nature of a Manifestation of God, thanks to the influence of ignorant clergy and their own camaraderie of poorly informed followers.

All we can know of God, we know through His Manifestations. We can never comprehend God. A Manifestation of God is like a pure Mirror, clean and without dross, reflecting the spiritual attributes of God at every moment. Yet they're not always speaking in the Voice of Revelation at every moment.

Surely this would not be hard to understand if you consider how the actor gets into character - he has to put himself utterly aside and play the role of the person he's portraying. No mentally stable person would ever think the actor and the one portrayed are merged or identical.

The Manifestations of God have no ego when they are in Revelation Mode (Similar to a trance state). Jesus, the man, stepped aside and became nothing, just like Moses and Abraham did, when the channel opened (as the dove of Revelation descended from heaven); He was like a hollow reed for the Voice to flow through. THAT Voice says "I AM" .

Christians have no idea what that was like because the Bible has never described it. Other scriptures have.

(Edited by Zanjan)
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elsafer
elsafer: Zan you can believe what you want to believe, but you can't tell me who Moses was and who Jesus is.

2 Peter 2v1-3
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

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Zanjan
Zanjan: Yes, I can tell you who Moses was and Jesus was - I've read the same Book and I know all the teachings. Conversely, you can't tell me who Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'ullah were.......I've read all those Books too and know the teachings.

False prophets can't deliver a Revelation- where are their books? They can't build a civilization either - where is the name of the one who's done it? Neither can they guide anyone to God, see the far flung future, or speak or be seen beyond the grave.

Jesus said "Beware of false prophets who come in my name". Therefore, you, as a Christian, have only to look at anyone who comes in the name of Jesus Christ and is called a prophet.

A Manifestation of God doesn't come in anyone's name because He is God's Mouthpiece; His Light recreates the world. Did Moses say He came in the name of Abraham? Did Jesus say He came in the name of Moses? No. So you decide where to look for the Promised One.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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elsafer
elsafer: No Zan you just think you know .
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