What happens to people that have never heard of Jesus? (Page 4)

Zanjan: Such children have nothing to be saved from yet.

Zanjan: Unless it's really bad parents.

Cenababy: Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

And said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Zanjan: It's too bad the Bible is so general about child-rearing and marriage, but those were much simpler times. Kids didn't go to school; they stayed home with jobs to do, under their mom's watchful eye. No separate bedrooms for kids.

People were born, raised and died in the same place. Everybody knew everybody so the adults kept watch on the kids when parents were busy/sick. It's strange to me what that must have been like - a time of full interdependence and family co-operation, a time when parents listened to their own parents' advice and grandparents lived with them too, often having the final say.

God is real: ok Zanjan you said children have nothing to be saved from. Thats true and false at the same time.Childrens as everybody else are born sinful but due to their status they are considered innocent indeed.If childrens were sinless then they wouldnt suffer the consequence of sin ( illness pain and so forth).Yet we all agree they go to heaven.I personally believe that those who suffered premature passing away are gonna be living in the New Earth kingdom

Zanjan: Children are NOT born sinful - one can't sin until they understand spoken language; and, heaven doesn't belong to the sinful. That's a fact.

All that babies know is the call of bodily functions and the comfort of strong arms around them. What they can suffer from is illness, neglect and abuse - that's not their fault because they're helpless creatures. The innocent, of any age, often suffer terribly at the hands of wicked, sinful people.

Honestly, where are the experienced parents in this topic???

Cenababy: Children certainly fail because of stupid adults!

ghostgeek: Why is it that the religious can never agree on what to believe?

God is real: Why do you care what religious people agree on ? Read for yourself.Pretty confident that God will teach you what you need

Angry Beaver: "What happens to people that have never heard of Jesus?"

Nothing, they have no preconceptions

GIR....if you lot can't even agree among yourselves, how do you expect us to listen to what you espouse?

God is real: your mindset is off.Read for yourself.Google has enough information on pretty much all topics christian argue about.Read for yourself...best advice man ever came up with

Zanjan: Ghost wrote: "Why is it that the religious can never agree on what to believe?"

This is due to the tremendous diversity among humans and that each soul is unique. There's bound to be different perspectives. Can you say that atheists all agree with each other?

Surely you realize each person has their own moral code, their own values. These are bound to clash unless there's a central object to which they all bow. Would you be satisfied if everyone agreed on one thing or five things............how many?

Zanjan: GIR...........I've read it all. Now what? Clearly, it takes a lot more than reading to understand something as it was intended to be understood, including the deeper layers.

God has said that each Word of Revelation has 70 meanings. Yes, they are ALL correct but the chances of you getting more than 5 right are pretty slim.

In case someone asks why, it's because the Creative Word includes eternity - there are many worlds of God, one world after another - each of God's Words permeates them all throughout time. YOU are only on your second world, waiting for the next one.

When you get to the next one, you'll see ALL the Prophets and Revelators of God and can ask them directly, since they'll communicate in your own language. Unlike this earthly plane, the cool thing is, you can't object to the answers.

ghostgeek: I thought the point of God was that humans shouldn't all have their own moral code, their own values.

Zanjan: The moral code part is true. Values, on the other hand, are a feature of free will. Eradicating either is like pulling teeth. People are way too rooted in their notions; but, if one is miraculously successful, it's like changing copper into gold.

I knew a guy who had at least 10 rules he thought the whole world should bend to; disagree, and he'd make your life miserable. We, on the outside of his little kingdom, met over coffee and decided he had borderline personality disorder. I'd voted that he'd crossed the border but the others thought I was being too harsh.

shadowline: I'm curious. Where did God say that every word of revelation has seventy meanings? I take it that's in The Kitab-i-Iqan, or some such thing, is it? My my, the things God has said when you decide for yourself what originates with Him.

Zanjan: Yes, it's in the Kitab-i-Iqan, which Baha'u'llah wrote. He also said every knowledge has 70 + meanings. Before the 19th century, humans only knew ONE meaning.

Even letters have several meanings; for instance, He gave 5 meanings for each of the letters in the word "sparrow" (because someone asked Him) . He could explain all meanings.

That tells us, so could Jesus because He was also a Revelator; however, Jesus wasn't saying much......He said "I have more to tell you but you can't bear it now". It wasn't time yet.

The ancients were aware of various levels of meanings.......the Jews were particularly fascinated with that and still are; at one time, their mystics were world famous. So were Muslim mystics. Christians, however, never gained that degree of notoriety.....I think, perhaps, because that dispensation was so short.

Since intellectual capacity, overall, has increased, it was time to extrapolate. Disclosing the number of meanings illustrated how much more mankind had to learn - academic arrogance has often been the worst of faults among scholars.

"My my, the things God has said when you decide for yourself what originates with Him. "

To this day, I've never quoted from our scriptures on Wire. I've been thinking its time - you'd see for yourself, via the quotes, that was no decision of mine. However, the topic is directed to Jesus so, it's not the right place.

ghostgeek: Surely intellectual capacity hasn't increased through recorded history? Knowledge, yes, but not raw intellect.

Cenababy: Shadow lol. Exactly

Zanjan: Cena, it's in paragraph 182. The Kitab-i-Iqan is the "Book of Certitude". You can look it up yourself, using Interfaith Explorer on the Web. Since it's just one of more than 100 Books Baha'u'llah penned, do you think Shadow guessed rightly by accident??? Maybe it was the only Book he ever read - would you think it was just an accident it happened to be in that, particular Book?

Often, I've seen you and others post "God said......" then surely I can do the same, respecting your choice to verify or not.

Zanjan: Ghost, what you read throughout history is from the contributions of men, not women. Well more than half the world's population had always been female. Most are now educated, which adds to intellectual advancement a unique perspective and intuitive depth.

In the past, literary contributions were from the top thinkers of the ages. Read them now, and they don't look quite so brilliant as they must have to their own people. Today, many of the most insightful and productive works are not from famous intellectuals.

You've heard me say this before - in 1775, the Encyclopedia Britannica had only ONE book, containing all the knowledge mankind had at the time. Since the 1980s there has been at least 3 full sets of books, about a dozen each, and that doesn't even include the number of research papers on various subjects one could request.

It follows that the more knowledge available, the greater the capacity of minds to utilize it; otherwise it would just spill out, like calculus to a three year old. With advancement, comes responsibility to use the knowledge wisely. Has mankind ever been as responsible and mature as it is today?

Zanjan: Furthermore, Ghost, the capacity of "Raw intellect" varies among individuals since it can't be borrowed or parroted - it involves strength of character, independence, curiosity, and will to rise to higher ground. It's potential is like the mirror, when turned towards the light - the brighter the light, the more heat the mirror radiates.

Notice the need for the people of the past to have clergy to respond to every question, and rule over every detail of their lives. Very much like children, not using their own brains........we still see that in the groups who whine and protest to the government to solve every societal problem.

However, I was referring to the collective - compare to the ability we now have to take responsibility on our own shoulders, especially for matters of faith, not needing to have someone to call us to worship or pray, or tell us how to eat or dress. Such as these have influenced the greater part of society, assuring others they can do the same.

The tools and means are now here; the will, however, must be dredged up. Who will provide encouragement to the timid?

If anyone has NOT heard of the suns of previous days, it's ok - they have a new sun today. God always provides.

ghostgeek: Er, could you expatiate on the "suns of previous days" bit? Not sure what you're getting at there.

Zanjan: Like the physical sun, the Divine Sun of Reality is the Light of the World - it rises in the East and sets in the West. After that, there's a period of darkness until the sun returns to the Eastern horizon. How amazing these two dimensions are so in sync!

So, whatever age you live in, it's the same sun, just on different days with different names. Who decided how many days of the week there should be? Why not keep counting each day until you reach 365?

I think you can agree the rays of the sun are much stronger at its zenith than at either end of its arc. If you go outside and walk around in the sun for many hours, your skin changes colour; likewise, if you stay inside, screened from it. Similar to that, this is why all those living in different times have different degrees of spiritual strength and vision - it's their own response to the intensity of light.

Revelation is progressive so as not to harm any soul - they need to be prepared for the next delivery, which will be more expansive than the previous.

ghostgeek: That chap you follow certainly had an imagination.