What Is Atheism? (Page 3)

shadowline
shadowline: God seeing you in the bathroom and knowing every single thought that has ever gone through your mind since you were born, is also presumably true of life right here on earth. Believers in God don't seem to be particularly agitated by that.

So, unless "Hitch" found life here on earth "disgusting" he was raging against nothing in finding eternity in heaven that. And he was saying virtually nothing about it. The Bible says that human beings cannot conceive of what God has prepared for those who love him, an observation which doesn't seem to allow for the conditions of a police state. It doesn't allow for anything that occurs to us living.

Except maybe Dante, who has the blessed in heaven saying "In la sua voluntade e nostra pace". "In His will is our peace".
(Edited by shadowline)
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chronology
chronology: The Hitch just saw God as a mass murderer
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firstdown857
firstdown857: The Building Plan Recorded in Human DNA
Before the construction of a house begins, an architectural plan is drawn up, and the materials to be used in construction must be determined and obtained. Different shapes and sized of timber, nails, insulation materials, mortar, windows, doors, electrical wiring, pipes and many other materials are all prepared for specific purposes. These materials are not used haphazardly; nor does the construction crew act in the light of their own decisions and desires. On the contrary, everything proceeds in the light of a specific plan and is tightly regulated. Throughout the course of the project, there is no doubt what the construction workers will do first, how much of which materials they will use, and in what order. For example, the foundations must be laid before the doors and windows can be framed, and the wiring has to be put in before the walls. All these stages are parts of a comprehensive plan.

Now, suppose that this comprehensive plan has been encoded and concealed somewhere too small to be seen with the naked eye.

If we compare the human body to a structure, the DNA molecule represents the blueprint, complete right down to the smallest detail. DNA contains all the technical details, such as how the body and its materials are to be put together, how much will be used and where, what the finished anatomy will look like and what functions each part will serve.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Also in that building plan is consideration for longevity. Not all warranties are the same because not all buildings have the same use. Is the structure intended to be a portable storage shed, high rise office building, stadium or museum?

Since humans don't exist to keep the food chain going and support the balance nature, we serve different purposes. This is variable and complex but are all organized.

Your body is genetically coded to last a specific length of time. Barring accidents, serious abuse and heroic measures, you will live 30, 60 or 100 years. It stands that the short-lived and long-lived are meeting different needs. There's no ground to support thinking that the offspring of either will automatically carry the same longevity gene.

However, there are no gaps in the flow of life.....all is connected. Bridge-building is consistent. Logically, the builder must know point C exists before work begins on point A.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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The flying Squirrel
The flying Squirrel: What is Atheism. I reckon its a varient of free masonry. Last century it was a Christian society. So people went to Masionc lodges . Its the same type principle. Regect gods laws for mans .they lived by there own rules. Ones they made up. Thats why the masonic lodges were secret
Secret societys .

Back then the laws weren't intrusive cos everyone was taught the bible in school

Psalms 111:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

So thats where I reckon its come from its just accepted now . By most people as the norm
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Charles Darwin
Charles Darwin: This is my understanding: Gnosticism and agnosticism are dealing with knowledge, while theism and atheism are dealing with belief. A gnostic theist would be one who makes the claim "I *know* X about God, so I *believe* in him". The position of an agnostic atheist would be: I do not *know* about any deity (agnostic), so I don't *believe* in one (atheist). This is my position. These are not mutually exclusive terms. You can take one position on belief and another on knowledge.

There are agnostic theists. "Nah, I don't *know* for sure about any gods (agnostic), but I just *believe* there is something out there looking over us (theist).

Folks who say "I know there is no God!!" are making knowledge claims, which isn't the same as belief. They're taking a more gnostic position, and if they do not believe in a god (if they say they "know" there is none, they don't believe, most likely), then they are atheists also, but the atheism is speaking about that lack of belief, not that explicit claim of knowledge.

It is not as simple as "I don't know" = agnosticism and "I know, there is none" = atheism.
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firstdown857
firstdown857: Charles D : THE MEANING OF LIFE . YouTube
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firstdown857
firstdown857: 2:164 Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and earth, and the alternation of the night and the day, and the [great] ships which sail through the sea with that which benefits people, and what Allah has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein every [kind of] moving creature, and [His] directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and the earth are signs for a people who use reason.

3:190 Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day are signs for those of understanding.

7:54 Indeed, your Lord is Allah , who created the heavens and earth in six days and then established Himself above the Throne. He covers the night with the day, [another night] chasing it rapidly; and [He created] the sun, the moon, and the stars, subjected by His command. Unquestionably, His is the creation and the command; blessed is Allah , Lord of the worlds.

30:22 And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and your colors. Indeed in that are signs for those of knowledge.

30:27 And it is He who begins creation; then He repeats it, and that is [even] easier for Him. To Him belongs the highest attribute in the heavens and earth. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

42:29 And of his signs is the creation of the heavens and earth and what He has dispersed throughout them of creatures. And He, for gathering them when He wills, is competent.

41:52-43 Say, "Have you considered: if the Qur'an is from Allah and you disbelieved in it, who would be more astray than one who is in extreme dissension?"
We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?

10:101 - Say, "Look at all the signs in the Heavens and the Earth." All the proofs and all the warnings can never help people who decided to disbelieve.

12:105 - So many proofs in the Heavens and the Earth are given to them, but they pass by them, heedlessly!

After this visual observance of the powerful signs both in the skies and the Earth, each human is given up to the age of 40 (verse 46:15-16) to decide and bear witness that there can be none other except the "One ALLAH" who created it all, and to seek sincere repentance for their sins. This belief should readily come as ALLAH has already put in the instinct of every human (see verse 30:30) and be reasoned out by the fact that if there were more than ONE ALLAH, there would be fighting in the skies (the Heavens) and chaos in the universe.

17:42 - Say, "If there were any other gods beside Him, as they claim, they would have tried to overthrow the Possessor of the throne."

21:22 - If there were in them (the Heavens and the Earth) other gods besides ALLAH, there would have been chaos. Glory be to ALLAH; the Lord with absolute authority. He is high above their claims.

23:91 - ALLAH has never begotten a son. Nor was there any other god beside Him. Otherwise, each god would have declared independence with his creations, and they would have competed with each other for dominance. ALLAH be glorified; far above their claims.

30:30 - Therefore, you shall devote yourself to the religion of strict monotheism. Such is the natural instinct placed into the people by ALLAH. Such creation of ALLAH will never change. This is the perfect religion, but most people do not know.

1. Shahadah

This is the most important declaration of faith to become a Muslim (Submitter), after denouncing the devil (the temporary 2nd god), and by asking forgiveness for past sins and then proclaiming "La Elaha Ella Allah" (There is no god except Allah).

16:51 - ALLAH has proclaimed: "Do not worship two gods; there is only one god. You shall reverence Me alone."

21:25 - We did not send any messenger before you except with inspiration: "There is no god except Me; you shall worship Me alone."

72:19 - 72:20 - When ALLAH's servant advocated Him alone, almost all of them banded together to oppose him. Say, "I worship only My Lord; I never set up any idols beside Him".

Truthful Shahadah - NOW PROVEN

47:19 - You shall know that: "There is no other god beside ALLAH", and ask forgiveness of your sins and the sins of all believing men and women. ALLAH is fully aware of your decisions and your ultimate destiny.

Examples of False Shahadahs

1. There is no other god beside ALLAH, and Muhammad is His messenger.
2. There is one ALLAH, and Jesus is the son of ALLAH.
3. ALLAH is one, and Moses was the last messenger.

Comment

The false shahadahs given above are clear idolatry, have no basis, and cannot be proven. BUT the truthful shahadah states what humans should believe in and declare and it is now PROVEN through specific and special knowledge bestowed by ALLAH to me: this shall be mentioned on this Web site later on, inshallah.

2. Who is ALLAH (Allah) and why do humans have to believe in Him?

14:2 - ALLAH; the One who possesses everything in the Heavens and everything on Earth. Woe to the disbelievers; they have incurred a terrible retribution.

32:4 - 32:5 - ALLAH is the One who created the Heavens and the Earth, and everything in between them in six days, then assumed all authority. You have none beside Him as Lord, nor do you have an intercessor. Would you not take heed? All matters are controlled by Him, from the heaven to the Earth. To Him, the day is equivalent to one thousand of your years.

20:50 - He said, "Our Lord is the One who granted everything its existence, and its guidance."

16:49 - 16:52 - To ALLAH prostrates everything in the Heavens and everything on Earth - every creature - and so do the angels; without the least arrogance. They reverence their Lord, high above them, and they do what they are commanded to do. ALLAH has proclaimed: "Do not worship two gods; there is only one god. You shall reverence Me alone." To Him belongs everything in the Heavens and the Earth and therefore, the religion shall be devoted absolutely to Him alone. Would you worship other than ALLAH?

37:96 - "When ALLAH has created you, and everything you make!"

Why ISLAM (Submission)?

5:3 (Part) Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Islam (Submission) as the religion for you.

3:19 - The only religion approved by ALLAH is "Islam" (Submission). Ironically, those who have received the Scripture are the ones who dispute this fact, despite the knowledge they have received, due to jealousy. For such rejectors of ALLAH's revelations, ALLAH is most strict in reckoning.

Question

29:19 - 29:20 - Have they not seen how ALLAH initiates the creation, then repeats it? This is easy for ALLAH to do. Say, "Roam the Earth and find out the origin of life." For ALLAH will thus initiate the creation in the Hereafter. ALLAH is Omnipotent.

Answer

29:44 - ALLAH created the Heavens and the Earth, truthfully. This provides a sufficient proof for the believers.

AWESOME MIRACLE

Note that the QUESTION occurs through verse 19 and the ANSWER is given through Allah letters being 19 in verse 44. This proves that ALLAH, 19, is the Only True Creator.

3. What is Islam? (Submission)

22:18 - Do you not realize that to ALLAH prostrates everyone in the Heavens and the Earth, and the sun, and the moon, and the stars, and the mountains, and the trees, and the animals, and many people? Many others among the people are committed to doom. Whomever ALLAH shames, none will honor him. Everything is in accordance with ALLAH's will.

3:83 - Are they seeking other than ALLAH's religion, when everything in the Heavens and the Earth has submitted to Him, willingly and unwillingly, and to Him they will be returned?

3:85 - Anyone who accepts other than Submission as his religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter, he will be with the losers.

2:136 - Say, "We believe in ALLAH, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters.

31:22 - Those who submit completely to ALLAH, while leading a righteous life, have gotten hold of the strongest bond. For ALLAH is in full control of all things.

30:43 - Therefore, you shall devote yourself completely to this perfect religion, before a day comes which is made inevitable by ALLAH. On that day, they will be shocked.

30:53 - Nor can you guide the blind out of their straying. You can only be heard by those who believe in our revelations, and decide to become submitters.

7:196 - "ALLAH is my only Lord and Master; the One who revealed this scripture. He protects the righteous."
Denouncing the devil and believing in ALLAH:

18:50 - We said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam." They fell prostrate, except Satan. He became a jinn, for he disobeyed the order of His Lord. Will you choose him and his descendents as lords instead of Me, even though they are your enemies? What a miserable substitute!

2:256 - There shall be no compulsion in religion; the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in ALLAH has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. ALLAH is Hearer, Omniscient.

2:257 - ALLAH is the Lord of those who believe; He leads them out of darkness into the light. As for those who disbelieve, their lords are their idols; they lead them out of the light into darkness - these will be the dwellers of Hell; they abide in it forever.

38:82 - 38:83 - He said, "I (Satan) swear by Your majesty, that I will send them all astray. Except Your worshipers who are devoted absolutely to You alone."

Submission (Islam) is an ongoing belief and practice until death ALLAH guides and augments the faith of those who believe in Him:

6:125 - Whomever ALLAH wills to guide, He renders his chest wide open to Submission. And whomever He wills to send astray, He renders his chest intolerant and straitened, like one who climbs towards the sky. ALLAH thus places a curse upon those who refuse to believe.

22:54 - Those who are blessed with knowledge will recognize the truth from your Lord, then believe in it, and their hearts will readily accept it. Most assuredly, ALLAH guides the believers in the right path.

57:16 - Is it not time for those who believed to open up their hearts for ALLAH's message, and the truth that is revealed herein? They should not be like the followers of previous scriptures whose hearts became hardened with time and, consequently, many of them turned wicked.

7:178 - Whomever ALLAH guides is the truly guided one, and whomever He commits to straying, these are the losers.

4. Why do we have to preach and practice Islam through the Quran alone?

6:20 - THOSE TO WHOM WE HAVE GIVEN THE SCRIPTURE RECOGNIZE THIS AS THEY RECOGNIZE THEIR OWN CHILDREN. THE ONES WHO LOSE THEIR SOULS ARE THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE

AWESOME MIRACLE

The Allah letters are precisely 19, confirming the glorious, blessed, mathematical Quran, based on ALLAH's Signature.

7:196 - "ALLAH is my only Lord and Master; the One who revealed this scripture. He protects the righteous."

47:2 - Those who believe and work righteousness, and believe in what was sent down to Muhammad - which is the truth from their Lord - He remits their sins, and blesses them with contentment.

5:48 - Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with ALLAH's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had ALLAH willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To ALLAH is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.

35:31 - What we revealed to you in this scripture is the truth, consummating all previous scriptures. ALLAH is fully Cognizant of His servants, Seer.

4:105 - We have sent down to you the scripture, truthfully, in order to judge among the people in accordance with what ALLAH has shown you. You shall not side with the betrayers.

21:24 - Have they found other gods beside Him? Say, "Show me your proof. This is the message to my generation, consummating all previous messages." Indeed, most of them do not recognize the truth; this is why they are so hostile.

6:19 - Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "ALLAH's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods beside ALLAH." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry."

17:46 - We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, using the Quran alone, they run away in aversion.

5. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SUBMISSION AND IDOLATRY

The difference is, when we worship ALLAH, according to His commands from the Quran, we are Muslims to Him, because of our obedience to Him, which, in turn, is Submission to Him.

28:53 - When it is recited to them, they will say, "We believe in it. This is the truth from our Lord. Even before we heard of it, we were submitters."

27:80 - 27:81 - You cannot make the dead, nor the deaf, hear the call, if they turn away. Nor can you guide the blind out of their straying. The only ones who will hear you are those who believe in our revelations, and decide to be submitters.

42:17 - ALLAH is the One who sent down the scripture, to deliver the truth and the law. For all that you know, the Hour (Day of Judgment) may be very close.

45:18 - We then appointed you to establish the correct laws; you shall follow this; and do not follow the wishes of those who do not know.

What is idolatry?

31:25 - If you ask them, "Who created the Heavens and the Earth," they will say, "ALLAH." Say, "Praise be to ALLAH." Yet, most of them do not know.

Comment

Most people, though they agree that ALLAH created everything, still have doubts. That is why they disregard ALLAH's commands. This constitutes idolatry.

12:106 - The majority of those who believe in ALLAH do not do so without committing idol worship.

Comment

As the verse says, the majority will disregard and disobey ALLAH, even though they believe in Him, OR uphold teachings not approved by ALLAH. This constitutes idolatry.

41:5 - 41:6 - They said, "Our minds are made up, our ears are deaf to your message, and a barrier separates us from you. Do what you want, and so will we." Say, "I am no more than a human being like you, who has been inspired that your god is one god. You shall be devoted to Him, and ask His forgiveness. Woe to the idol worshipers."

Comment

This reflects an individual(s) ego problem by disregarding ALLAH's message, thereby constituting idolatry.

41:14 - Their messengers went to them, as well as before them and after them, saying, "You shall not worship except ALLAH." They said, "Had our Lord willed, He could have sent angels. We are disbelievers in what you say."

Comment

Rejecting "Authorized messengers of ALLAH" is clear idolatry.

3:78 - 3:80 - Among them are those who twist their tongues to imitate the scripture, that you may think it is from the scripture, when it is not from the scripture, and they claim that it is from ALLAH, when it is not from ALLAH. Thus, they utter lies and attribute them to ALLAH, knowingly. Never would a human being whom ALLAH blessed with the scripture and prophethood say to the people, "Idolize me beside ALLAH." Instead, (he would say), "Devote yourselves absolutely to your Lord alone," according to the scripture you preach and the teachings you learn. Nor would he command you to idolize the angels and the prophets as lords. Would he exhort you to disbelieve after becoming submitters?

Comment

Imitating the scripture, distorting, uttering lies against ALLAH, falsely believing that any prophet could add or take out commands from ALLAH's scriptures or change them in any way, constitutes idolatry.

6:19 - Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "ALLAH's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods beside ALLAH." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry."

Comment

The verse clearly states that ALLAH's testimony is the greatest, which has been sent down in the form of Quran. Rejecting, concealing, distorting the Quran, and upholding other unauthorized human books and teachings constitutes false gods - idolatry.

42:10 - If you dispute any part of this message, the judgment for doing this rests with ALLAH. Such is ALLAH my Lord. In Him I trust, and to Him I submit.

Comment

Disputing with ALLAH's message is equivalent to challenging His Authority. In this case, your EGO becomes your god. This is clear idolatry.

42:13 - 42:14 - He decreed for you the same religion decreed for Noah, and what we inspired to you, and what we decreed for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: "You shall uphold this one religion, and do not divide it." The idol worshipers will greatly resent what you invite them to do. ALLAH redeems to Himself whomever He wills; He guides to Himself only those who totally submit. Ironically, they broke up into sects only after the knowledge had come to them, due to jealousy and resentment among themselves. If it were not for a predetermined decision from your Lord to respite them for a definite interim, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the later generations who inherited the scripture are full of doubts.

Comment

The verse clearly tells us that ALLAH's religion has always been one. Anyone who breaks up His religion and forms sects, issues or follows teachings other than what ALLAH has prescribed constitutes clear idolatry.

39:36 - Is ALLAH not sufficient for His servant? They frighten you with the idols they set up beside Him. Whomever ALLAH sends astray, nothing can guide him.

Comment

For a believer, ALLAH is enough. Other people rely on additional sources, including humans, dead saints, and angels to implore ALLAH or ask for provisions, when there is no need to. This constitutes idol worship, as ALLAH is the Creator of even your fabricated idols.

39:59 - Yes indeed. My proofs came to you, but you rejected them, turned arrogant, and became a disbeliever.

Comment

If you reject any of ALLAH's proofs and miracles, such as on this Web site, it is also idolatry. YOU HAVE CHALLENGED ALLAH.

40:50 - They will say, "Did you not receive your messengers who delivered to you clear messages?" They will reply, "Yes we did." They will say, "Then implore; the imploring of the disbelievers is always in vain."

Comment

Messengers appointed by ALLAH are servants of the Omnipotent, Eternal King of the universe and they deliver His messages. When you reject the messenger or the message, it clearly implies gross arrogance, disobedience, rebellion, and a challenge to ALLAH's Authority to conduct the universe in the manner He sees best. This is gross idolatry, to the extent that Quranic verses reveal all major past punishments of ALLAH were unleashed on communities who rejected ALLAH's messengers.

40:18 - Warn them about the imminent day, when the hearts will be terrified and many will be remorseful. The transgressors will have no friend, nor an intercessor to be obeyed.

Comment

Humans who think that someone can save them or judge in favor of them on the Day of Judgment will be sorry. ALLAH is the Master of the Day of Judgment. Harboring or practicing thoughts like this is idolatry.

7:190 - 7:192 - But when He gives them a good baby, they turn His gift into an idol that rivals Him. ALLAH be Exalted, far above any partnership. Is it not a fact that they are idolizing idols that create nothing and are themselves created? Idols that can neither help them nor help themselves?

Comment

Humans who call Jesus the son of ALLAH and consider him the savior are totally misled. This is blasphemy and gross idolatry.

12:40 - You do not worship beside Him except innovations that you made up, you and your parents. ALLAH has never authorized such idols. All ruling belongs to ALLAH, and He has ruled that you shall not worship except Him. This is the perfect religion, but most people do not know.

Comment

Any kind of fabrications and innovations that cannot be confirmed through the scripture is also idolatry.

According to ALLAH, disbelief in the fact that He is One, that He has absolute and continuous authority over all things and matters, rejecting His words (Quran), His miracles and messages, His messengers, placing your opinion above ALLAH and His messenger, your own personal ego, rejecting ALLAH's commands, accepting only part of the message or rejecting part of the message, distorting His revelations, concealing ALLAH's commands, lying against the verses to create a certain meaning, translating ALLAH's words or interpreting them without authorization from ALLAH - these are some of the examples of idolatry and there are a lot more through the Quranic verses.

THE ONLY UNFORGIVEABLE SIN , IF MAINTAINED UNTIL DEATH, IS IDOLATRY.

4:48 - ALLAH does not forgive idolatry, but He forgives lesser offenses for whomever He wills. Anyone who sets up idols beside ALLAH, has forged a horrendous offense.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Monotheism is the knowledge that God is One - it's not a belief.

When I say "I believe X is true", this reveals hesitation. I chose the word "believe" because I'm aware that I don't have all of the facts.There's doubt, however small. Until that doubt is completely removed, I can't use any other word except "trust".

Trust is confidence; it's based on having a LOT of *information* about something or someone. When I feel confident God exists, I trust there's someone who hears my prayers. But do I have a way of knowing that?

To know is "to see"........to see is "to understand". When you're certain of a thing, you say "I know". Then you follow with how you know. Why do we do this?

Well, whatever the knowledge, nobody ever started from scratch. Knowledge is not invented - it existed before creation but can't be understood until someone unveils the means to you. It's not just a transfer of information, it's a discovery.

In the same way that a candle can't light itself, you can't understand without the aid of another.

The conveyance of knowledge requires a giver and a receiver. When the knowledge is new to you, it requires a confirmation that it's correct, a proof that comes from a reliable source other than you. All else is imagination.

Atheists are those who've collected random information then put it together themselves. Their conclusions must always support something they like - their own agenda and logic. Since they'll make any evidence fit, for them, proofs are unnecessary.

For all people, the important thing is to begin with believing something, then follow up by testing it out thoroughly. The truth will be exposed and confirmations will arrive. Atheists aren't testers because they fear what the truth may actually be.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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firstdown857
firstdown857: Zanjan 😐 Monotheism :-- We say about the oneness of God, believing in the guidance of God, that God is one without any partner.There is nothing worthy of worship but Him. He is the eternal without a beginning and enduring without end.

He does not resemble any created being. He is living and He never dies, always sustaining and never sleeping. He creates without a need to create, and He provides for His creation without any effort. He causes death with no fear of consequences, and He resurrects without any difficulty.

He has existed with His timeless attributes before His creation, which added nothing to His essence that was not already among His attributes. As His attributes were before creation, so will they continue forever.

It is not because He created the creation that He earned the name, ‘The Creator,’ nor by His making it did he earn the name, ‘The Maker.’ He has the quality of Lordship without requiring anything to Lord over, and the quality of being the Creator without requiring anything to create.

Just as He resurrects the dead after they first had life, He deserved this name before He brought them to life. Likewise, He deserved the name of ‘The Creator’ before He produced them. :--- This is because He has power over all things and all things are in need of Him. Every matter is easy for Him. He has no need of anything, for ‘there is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.’ (42:11)

He created the creation with His knowledge. He decreed destinies for them. He set for them life spans. Nothing was hidden from Him before He created them. He knew what they would do before He created them. He commanded them to obey Him and He forbade them to disobey Him.

Everything that occurs is according to His decree and will. His will is always accomplished. The will of the servants is only what He wills for them. Whatever He wills for them comes to be, and whatever He does not will for them does not come to be.

He guides whomever He wills. He protects them and secures them as grace. He leads astray whomever He wills. He humiliates them and He puts them to trial as justice. All of them go back and forth by His will, between His grace and His justice .

He is Exalted beyond having opposites or partners. None can repel His decree, amend His judgment, or overpower His command. We believe in all of this. We are certain that it is all from Him.
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3:35 [Mention, when the wife of 'Imran said, "My Lord, indeed I have pledged to You what is in my womb, consecrated [for Your service], so accept this from me. Indeed, You are the Hearing, the Knowing."

3:36 But when she delivered her, she said, "My Lord, I have delivered a female." And Allah was most knowing of what she delivered, "And the male is not like the female. And I have named her Mary, and I seek refuge for her in You and [for] her descendants from Satan, the expelled [from the mercy of Allah ]."

3:37 So her Lord accepted her with good acceptance and caused her to grow in a good manner and put her in the care of Zechariah. Every time Zechariah entered upon her in the prayer chamber, he found with her provision. He said, "O Mary, from where is this [coming] to you?" She said, "It is from Allah . Indeed, Allah provides for whom He wills without account."

3:42 And [mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the worlds.

3:43 O Mary, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow with those who bow [in prayer]."

3:44 That is from the news of the unseen which We reveal to you, [O Muhammad]. And you were not with them when they cast their pens as to which of them should be responsible for Mary. Nor were you with them when they disputed.

3:45 [And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ].

3:46 He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity and will be of the righteous."

3:47 She said, "My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?" [The angel] said, "Such is Allah ; He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is.

3:48 And He will teach him writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel

3:49 And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah . And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.

3:50 And [I have come] confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear Allah and obey me.

3:51 Indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is the straight path."
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Firstdown......this topic isnt about the Creator. It's about atheism. If one's intention is to convert any atheist to God, that's a lost cause. They must come to that position on their own.

The scriptures don't address atheism - they explain questions put to Muhammad by the religious. They all held to pagan (polytheistic) notions and followed whatever their clergy told them. As such, the religious, for the most part, were ignorant so they lacked faith.

By the way, your posts are too long. Just trying to save you the trouble of posting verses that are irrelevant to the subject matter.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Just for the record, that window of time appointed for belief in God by age 40 was disclosed 1,500 years ago. Times have changed. I estimate its around age 30 now. In my experience, if one doesn't believe in God by age 30, they never will as long as they live on earth.
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Kekraptico
Kekraptico: i reckon it's the way the brain hardwires itself, zan.
neat conversation! i am following this thread!
(Edited by Kekraptico)
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Hmm, well we live longer now. They're saying the 60's are the new 50's; many aren't ready to retire by the time they reach age 65. They've still got spirit and sparks of creativity.

However, I'm not finding that trend prevalent among atheists; it would be fascinating to see a study done on how well they age. So far, the only studies are in age/ gender categories:

Among atheist younger millennials: 70% are in the 18-29 age group; 67% of those are males. But there's a major shift in the 30-49 age group of atheists - only 25 % are millennials (the others are Gen X). However, males still count for 2/3rds of the group.

This suggests an accumulation of new experience has caused the majority of young atheists to flip around the times we've suggested. In the age 65+ atheist group are baby boomers but now, 78% of them are males.

So, if brains are hardwired differently, these stats say the denial wires are predominantly male.

The most recent studies done on natural physical development, which includes the development of the brain, find that males hit their physical prime in their 20's, females hit it much later. However, mental maturity doesn't necessarily follow because it has to do with experience in the environment.

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Kekraptico
Kekraptico: zan, i think maybe part of the reason you wont find many studies on atheists could partly be ralated to how they give out personal information and how the question of spirituality is being asked and how testees are allowed to answer (i.e. "not religious", "none", "non-denominational" <-- im not really sure why there is a wink emoji here, and i dont really know how to get rid of it} maybe i am not keeping up, i am a slow thinker, but i wonder if these taglines are used to aggregate more data on things like their understanding of science.

i remember reading a comment "upon what data do you base that claim on?", and it didnt really occur to me, but we dont really know atheists. we know they like privacy, thats about it, seems like.
(Edited by Kekraptico)
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Kekraptico
Kekraptico: i do recall looking at some graphic that correlated less violent crime with self proclaimed non-religious versus religious. i do remember confirming the link, but if you cant find any such data, im willing to move on.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: The emoji is there because you had a grammatical mark inside a bracket. Remove the quotation marks OR the bracket. I don't think you needed a bracket there, just a coma after ie. and a period at the end of the sentence.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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Kekraptico
Kekraptico: It has been about 8 years since I've typed properly. I can't say it's easy to do on mobile. Better get back to the good habits, am I right?
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Indeed, that's difficult. Ok, to continue......

The stats I used were derived from a poll (not a study). Surveys are a marketing tool.

A scientific study uses the historical interview which screens people for eligibility. (Since they need funding for the study, they need to have a theory then try to prove its worth). One has to identify the symptoms in the control groups. . If qualified, then the study begins; there are experiments. The results are conclusions about a condition.

We have scientific studies on aging; so far, no one has thought to include the question about belief in a deity, using that as one control group. . If one was really motivated, they'd have to cobble together findings from remotely related studies.

For example, there was a hospital study done on "power of prayer" but it failed examination because it didn't use scientific method. The conclusion was that "prayer doesn't work" - there's it's first failing. Doctors are scientists, they should have known better.

Scientific method begins with a phenomena that supposedly exists - it's an educated guess, based on multiple observations that suggest the phenomena is real, then uses multiple experiments to show how the phenomena works. That's called the theory.

In this prayer study, one, poorly chosen experiment was done with no follow through with different experiments. Two more failings. They claimed one control group was the patients in the hospital - that would have been ok if every patient had the same problem, but they didn't.

Now, I ask you, who but atheists would use one observation regarding a power (thought to exist) then select an absurd experiment using subjects from outside the lab?

How would they know if and when those people were praying, how sincere their prayer was, and what prayers they were saying? The experiment was based on speed. Power has nothing to do with speed except in sports. That clearly stems from a lack of knowledge about how prayer works.

Atheists still try to use that failed study to support their claims, figuring its better than nothing

Therefore, atheism can be identified as "dishonest conclusions", not simple ignorance.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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chronology
chronology: Well Zan, I don't know if any survey of Older folk's about religion will gather sound facts. Most older people I have spoken to about life after death are really not interested in the subject. And they are even less interested in discussing the subject. One of the most common views amongst older people I noticed is that they want to have as much fun as they can before they die. They don't go crazy but they sure like their booze which they enjoy quietly at home. As one old chap said to me 'am going to have as much fun as I can, you are a long time dead' . You would be surprised how many older men also pay younger women for, shall we say, a fun time' . Viagra sure gave older men a new way to spend their time.
But older folks are discreet and keep their revellings private.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Survey results depend on the demographics.

Hmm, my survey of older folks turns up a slightly different desire - they all want to be *active* as long as they can so they hope or pray for good health to make that possible.

We must be cruising different streets, Chron.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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chronology
chronology: Was stood talking to an old Guy one time Zan years ago. A Guy walked up to us and brought up his hand open. He had two blue pills in his hand. The old Guy I worked with bought the pills and put them in his shirt pocket.

Never took you for a druggie' I said to the old Guy. . They are not drugs says the old Guy, they keep you hard, I take two and stay hard twice as long.

Really Zan, older people are having way more fun than you think.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Right, the blue pills aren't drugs.
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E s s e n c e
E s s e n c e: I'll like to explain first why and how I perceive atheism to be. In my experience the grand majority of atheist or theist HAVEN'T spend time RESEARCHING scientifically to understand WHY, either for themselves or opposition, have a different perception of reality while sharing the same reality. The main objective has been to nullify opposition by claiming an absolute truth over them.

From atheist the question is logical about G-d or gods' existence, but the delivery is emotional, by assuming to have an absolute truth due to the "obvious" logical and superior understand or reality. They're protecting an emotional subjective truth, WITHOUT knowing the dynamics and mechanics of reality and it's perception. From the theist the response and reaction to a logical valid question that confronts and demands to be understood cognitively is delivered emotionally; because in the extense of the majority of theist CAN'T explain logically, and in order to protect their subjective truth they drop scripture verses to explain and validate their experience.

We humans are EXPERIENCING life. There're TWO types of truths, one are the FACTS of reality which is an objective universal truth, where we all can agree that the flower is red, and those who don't, we can explain why they can't and continue agreeing.

The second is the PERCEPTION of reality, which is the interpretation of the facts of reality. The void in the glass is a fact of reality, half of glass full or half empty is the interpretation of a fact of reality. Both opposite perspectives ARE TRUTH reflecting how the individual is experiencing reality, this truth is subjective, yet, regardless still is a truth...

Jewish Sages have known for thousands of years the differenciation between reality and the perception of it. My Rav Michael Laitman gave us an example of understanding of experiencing reality. Imagine a group of people are looking at an airplane up in the air, with different magnification grades in their binoculars, without knowing the exact measurements of the airplane. Every single individual is going to interpret the measurements according to their magnification grades, and ALL are CORRECT in what there're seeing.

Atheism is the independent conclusion in an individual's life experience where s/he arrives to the believe that there's no G-d or gods, and the facts or reality backs them up; the craftsmanship (Nature/Universe and it's laws) don't reflect or reveal the Craftsman.

Theism is the independent conclusion in an individual's life experience where s/he arrives to a believe that there's a G-d or gods, and the facts of reality backs them up; the craftsmanship reflects and reveals the Craftsman.

The question that matters in my perception is, we know we're ntelligent and smart primates, WHY are we INCAPABLE or RESIST to accept others' perceptions and have the NEED to be right over others and nullifying them?

Here are Scientific links from different branches of Science Explaining reality and it's perception.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802367/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/think-different-jan-11/

https://www.nap.edu/read/1785/chapter/8

https://people.rit.edu/vvrsps/Essays/Essay%2012.htm

https://www.salon.com/2017/04/24/is-this-the-real-life-the-neuroscience-of-perception-offers-us-an-answer/

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/05/deviate-science-seeing-perception-brain-beau-lotto/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/looks-can-deceive/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4116780/
(Edited by E s s e n c e)
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firstdown857
firstdown857: Essence 😐 See this vedio and let me know about ur opinion : - Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed (full movie) . YouTube
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