Jesus in the Passover Lamb (Page 5)

Apokalupto
Apokalupto: That's not an argument against the OP. You're bickering.
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

You're boring the reader.

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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: The New Testament says that the lamb was slain from the "foundation" of the world meaning from the beginning. Revelation 13:8 The idea was always intended in Gods plan.

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

The very first lamb was sacrificed by Abel and it pleased God. Genesis 4:2 & 4:4 This shows that God is pleased with lamb sacrifice regardless if Egypt made sheep into an actual object of worship.

As we know, Israel was in bondage in Egypt, the lamb was an essential component to them escaping from Egypt alive, for without the lamb not even Moses could lead them out alive since Gods wrath would be on them.

There are a few things encoded in the symbolism of the PL, (Passover Lamb)
1. Sinlessness,
2. Deity,
3. Becoming the object of sin
4. And ultimately cleansing from sin and giving life.

1. Sinlessness

If the symbolism was merely that of an Egyptian sheep god and nothing more then why the need for them to take the nicest looking lamb "without blemish"? Exodus 12:5
and make this "Egyptian god" better? Taking a lamb without blemish for a sacrifice to atone for sin was done for other sacrifices therefor showing that the "without blemish" has nothing to do with any god from Egypt, it's something the God of Israel did and ordained it to be that way because it was representative of something, namely the lamb without blemish represents being without sin, moral perfection.

2. Deity

Since the Egyptians viewed this animal as a god it takes on the quality of being deity in it's spiritual symbolism (for the moment we are not considering it as pagan, merely "deity" so that it can be unpacked and the symbols can have their own meaning and be understood). If it were the literal thing itself, nothing would ever make sense. God would eternally want Israel to eat Egyptians gods to nourish their bodies with protein. It goes beyond that shallow meaning. Keep in mind that Abel sacrificed a lamb from the beginning, this is not a new practice, it has always pleased God and that is why it pleased him here.

3. Object of sin
the very fact that the Egyptians deified it, it became an object of sin especially if they had worshipped it.

4. Cleansing sin and giving life

Exodus 12:22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood (of the passover lamb) that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.

"Ye shall take a bunch of hyssop and dip it in the blood" the blood is a sign that your house was covered and would not be under Gods judgment. Secondarily take note that God told them to use "hyssop" branches to cover the door with the blood. Right now we can already see that the blood was being used for their salvation and you will see how the hyssop was used in cleansing rituals therefor taking the spiritual symbol of cleansing or purifying.

Leviticus 14:4 Then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be -cleansed- two birds alive and clean, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and -hyssop:-

Leviticus 14:6 As for the living bird, he shall take it, and the cedar wood, and the scarlet, and the -hyssop,- and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water: (The cleansing nature of the hyssop and blood together being put over the bird, or in other words being put over us and washing us)

Leviticus 14:7 And he shall sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose into the open field. (The the living bird was let loose representing the life of the new believer who is set free and who was cleansed by being “under” the blood of the slain bird/Christ. Take note that the death of a bird was used for the life of another bird, 1 bird had to die for another bird. Same same. Man for all of mankind.

Hyssop was not only used when cleansing from disease, but David figuratively uses it in his Psalm to cleanse him from sin. Psalm 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. – Read the passage, David wants his heart to be pure and clean and figuratively uses hyssop to demonstrate symbolically that cleansing and purifying process.

You see how in the law they dipped the blood of the animal in hyssop, this wasn't only a Passover lamb ritual, and it further demonstrates that the Passover lamb was not just some literal act, it had very deep spiritual symbolic meaning. The figurative cleansing nature of hyssop WITH blood is essential to understanding the Passover. The two together represent "life cleansing blood" because the blood of the lamb represented their salvation from judgment, and the hyssop gives the cleansing symbolism to the blood. Twofold meaning.

Let's take a further look at how blood was viewed symbolically and how it was used.

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul.

The life of the flesh is in the blood, therefore the blood represents "life."

Unpacking the symbolism has made it clear and manifest that the NT derived meaning directly from the OT and Jesus fulfilled it to a T.

So we have Jesus without blemish, without sin, who is God manifest in the flesh, two natures, lamb and Deity, man and God, who was slain for our sins by putting the blood on the door post of our hearts so we could live and not be under Gods judgment. He became sin for us by taking the sin of the world and becoming that “object of sin” like it was viewed in Exodus, and condemning it to judgment in our stead.

2Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him (Jesus) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

In other words, when Jesus was on the cross you saw your sin on Him, He was full of sin when he was lifted up and punished on our behalf. This symbol in Egypt that God used was not without a very deep meaning and in the NT it has nothing at all to do with pagan Egyptian gods. It’s the spiritual and symbolic aspects that tell the message, just as the serpent in the wilderness didn’t actually represent a serpent, it represented Israel’s own sin lifted up on a pole, and any who looked at it were healed from the poisonous snake bites. Same symbolic meaning same message, same truth, the serpent was an object of sin, their own sin, they had to see their sin being punished.

1Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:


If you did not have the lambs blood covered over you (your door post) then you would be met with Gods wrath. This is the message in the NT, If we don’t have Jesus blood cleansing us and covering us, and put on the door post of your hearts, then you are under Gods wrath, we would not be saved from Egypt which spiritually bondage and sin.
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DontNeedChrist
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GeraldtheGnome
GeraldtheGnome: Some still love using the word and in odd ways. Anyway we’ve all made mistakes. No one wants to pass the lamb over to me ? One doesn’t want to and that is alright. The Jew though is right if what is meant is that Christians have a tendency to see things that really are not there, I mean adding a new fictional character, Christ who is now under various names, led to the development of The New Testament. There really is no mention of him before the development of The New Testament. So there’s no lamb for me and there is no Jesus in the Passover Lamb. You are both fighting about made up supernatural beings and people who never existed anyway.
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

First statement you've posted that makes any sense. Bravo.

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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: Maybe if you two put your heads together you could combine your intellectual resources and come up with a substantial, good argument. I'm waiting.
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

I've repeatedly offered concrete, scripturally-based arguments to your xtian nonsense but you insist on poo-pooing them so it's just a waste of my time.

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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: If you have enough time to complain about it throughout the day I'm sure you can copy and paste these arguments of yours?
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

Gosh, I would love to. Most of the written arguments are right here in these forums, many in threads that YOU started.

Ah, but alas, the majority of my arguments have been replaced with the words "POST DELETED BY APOKALUPTO."

Oh well.

(Edited by DontNeedChrist)
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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: Deleted for mockery and insults that you made 2 years ago. If you have an argument make one already.

If you want to pretend like it will be deleted (it wont be) then I ask you right now to make your own thread and post them there that way no one on the face of the earth can claim that your arguments were deleted. It is the most honest thing you can do instead of returning here and complaining after 2 years and now accusing me of deleting your "arguments" which no one can verify but is somehow used against me?

I will participate in your thread, I will make sound biblical arguments that I made in this thread, and your views will be challenged as they have been here. I'm waiting.
(Edited by Apokalupto)
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

My word against yours they were insults or mockery which lends evidence to the absurdity of deleting posts. You were most likely insulted because my points proved you wrong so just hit the delete button...nobody will be the wiser. Yes, I'm using it against you. Just own it.

I'm not complaining or pretending about anything, just engaging in the conversation.

And as far as your request for me to start a thread, I'm not your circus monkey. I won't jump through your hoops so just keep on waiting. The gnome will just delete all our posts so this is more wasted time.

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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: Having to make your own thread on the topic has never stopped you before, you've made plenty of topics, what's stopping you now? I'd love to see these points you speak of.
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

You've seen them ad nauseam. I have several threads that are active right now. Read and learn. Stop baiting.

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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: Please post a link to the Passover lamb topic.
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

We're typing in that very thread, why the need to post a link?

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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: Please type your arguments then.
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

Refer back to the beginning of the thread and feel free to read the arguments I posted that didn't manage to get censored.

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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: All of your arguments have been answered in this thread, maybe you would like to respond to those???
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

I did. Many were deleted. Now you're begging me to repost. That's funny.

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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: Your arguments will not be deleted, please post your arguments. Lets see what you have to offer, if anything? In your arguments be sure to make direct responses to my own points from scripture.
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

Too late. Stop baiting.

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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

This conversation is best in a chat room, not a forum.

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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: Asking for your arguments is baiting now? What kind of reverse psychology or gaslighting is this? Why are you here? "I'm not complaining or pretending about anything, just engaging in the conversation."-DontNeedMessiah

I'm certain it's never too late. Nothing is stopping you from posting your arguments or making your own thread topic on this but you.
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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: I'm not going to delete your arguments.
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