Bava Metzia 59b and rabbinic sages (Page 4)

DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

FIFTEENTH TIME...What is the story about AA? You claimed you read it. Did you lie?

If you truly read it, tell the readers of this forum what it's about so we can move on. Since you refuse to explain, one can only deduce that you lied about reading it. Prove me wrong.

You need time to look it up? No problem. We'll wait.

(Edited by DontNeedChrist)
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:
16th ASK:

What's the story in Bava Metzia 59b about AA? You said you read it.




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butttler
butttler: dnc...this is last time i will say this to you because i have said it to you several times in pm and you do not care to listen...because of the Anti-God views in talmud i would not take time to study talmud other than to show it could have never originated from God and is only the traditions of mere sinful men...that was my personal point when i typed the heading for this thread...how its utterly impossible that man in any way can overrule God and how its utterly impossible in any way that it could be Gods will that rabbinic sages deternine truth of Gods word not God....but dnc your faulty talmud encourages you to treat gentiles in unGodly ways...and all you are doing is heaping sin upon sin upon yourself...and only the Blood of Jesus Christ can make provision for your Eternal forgiveness...May God bless you abundantly in this way
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

Wow, ok...

I was under the impression we were going to discuss a beautiful story in the Talmud that teaches many valuable lessons but the original poster and his friends never bothered to read it. Amazing.

So instead, this thread quickly degraded into an ambush on COMMENTARIES of the story and has nothing to do with the story itself. At this writing there are FOUR pages to this thread and not once was the story discussed. Just gotchas about commentaries, interpretations and opinions which are NOT part of the story.

Since this has been nothing but a personal attack on me, fellow Jews, Judaism, and the Talmud, it's time to take the high road and abstain from any more posts here. The lynching is over boys.

I'm sure I will be harangued for leaving this conversation and called a coward or arrogant or whatever loving words that will be thought of but it's really none of my concern. I sincerely couldn't care less. I'm done being your whipping boy.

Have fun trashing Judaism.

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G e n e s i s
G e n e s i s: I hope he doesn't have to ask 17 times
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butttler
butttler: dnc...i only copied the words you posted...Quote"In this astounding story, the rabbis, in dramatic fashion make very clear that it is THE RABBIS and not G-d who determine Jewish Law. To phrase it somewhat differently, it is the rabbis who are authorized to interpret G-d’s Torah, even over the objections of the Divine author Himself. It matters little what G-d had in mind.

It sounds heretical, but such is the nature of Torah and the will of G-d.".End Quote

these are words people really believe but they are Anti-God words...this was not an excercise to ambush anyone..but..to show such views cannot come from God...what people choose to believe determines their destiny ...
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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: No, it certainly was not an exercise or an excuse to bash anyone. When ever we see godless teachings we should not follow them and we should be able to talk about it.

Butler, my interest was in the same vein as yours, instead I got accused of being a liar for no reason alls because I didn't conform to his demands and then leaves acting like were blood lynching him, and then you get bashed in pm. It's nonsense. It-is-impossible-to-reason-with-him Bashing starts in private with him. Anyone who believes this was about bashing him and hes just here taking it all is gullible.

Being on this little website really has given me a window into some Jewish perspectives as to why they don't believe in the OT.


Butler that Talmud passage that's being called beautiful really reminds me of this verse. Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

In really is, in my very honest opinion, regardless of who believes or it if that is even being believed, just the very notion is wrong.
(Edited by Apokalupto)
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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: It is never alright to glorify or to lift up man higher than God, period. You'd think we could all discuss that, but it's obviously turned out to be a very sensitive topic. I'm sorry you felt bashed, even though...you really weren't at all. I know that I refused to do that and I cant find anywhere in the thread where anyone actually bashed you. Putting it in terms of a "nothing but personally attacking" is absolutely wrong and is a gross mis-characterization of everyone in this thread.

Also there is no ambush in this thread what so ever. People chimed in as they saw fit and nothing was planned, butler has an open thread where he allows other views as apposed to deleting even a single word that might be out of context. I made it perfectly clear why I was in this thread from beginning to end, and so did butler, you had a gross misunderstanding of the OP and absolutely refused to take correction on what its about even after being told time and time again. Instead of trying to understand, you mountain goated your way through trying to ram your own purpose into this thread instead of respecting the totality of the OP and a lot of this thread is you "counting" and refusing to accept the ACTUAL OP in its "totality" and that not everyone has the same goal as you.


If you felt personally attacked you should be able to tell that person you don't respect their attitude and come to an understanding.


"I'm sure I will be harangued for leaving this conversation and called a coward or arrogant or whatever loving words that will be thought of but it's really none of my concern. I sincerely couldn't care less. I'm done being your whipping boy."

Nope, no one is hanging your shadow for leaving, that is your prerogative, but I DO find it very necessary to address your gross characterizations of this thread and everyone in it as some kind of darker scheme to attack you and to attack Jews, which is very inappropriate.

If either of you (amore &dnc) thought I said anything to either one of you that was hurtful in the exchanges leading up to the 4th page, then I apologize, that's not my intention.

(Edited by Apokalupto)
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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: Amore thanks for the civil conversation even though I disagree with everything you say. If you would like to continue feel free to comment, the thread is open if you want to throw some more examples that you think show man can overrule God.
(Edited by Apokalupto)
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amoregrowers
amoregrowers: Its simple Logic.
But first let me explain that Jews believe G-d is sovereign and all powerful. So man in no way can overrule G-d .

But, when two people are right in a situation. The Torah and Majority rule Overrules the signs and wonders.

Didnt Jesus even quote scripture instead of Miracles when tempted by satan?

In Christianity you dont look for Miracles signs and wonders, you rely on scripture.

Same goes for Jews. Torah /scripture is ultimate Truth before any other source.

Most signs and wonders are for the induvidual alone.

But the bigger point of the story in Bava Metzia is how we treat each other when we disagree. Even if were both right.

You should never publicly humiliate anyone.
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God is real
God is real: what are you talking about ? The oven was appropriate and that was the right thing.The council of RABBIES WERE WRONG in the story.And GOD confirmed it by the miracles and his VOICE which didnt contradicted the torah at this point.Therefore whatever followed from there IS NONSENSE and is the reason why the story seems non legit
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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: "But first let me explain that Jews believe G-d is sovereign and all powerful. So man in no way can overrule G-d"

If they do then well, if not then, well that's the point of this topic, those Jews who believe man can overrule God. Do you disagree with DNC's interpretation of the story?

I'm afraid the question of whether is more authoritative, scripture of miracles, is quite beside the point, since even in the story, scripture alone sufficeth not, but the ultimate power that the rabbis have in conjunction with what was said before, that "It matters little what God has in mind." What seems to matters appears to rest solely in what the rabbis think, and little to no thought of what God cares for. That seems to be the emphasis, do you disagree? If so, how do you explain DNCs explanation that he used?



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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: Gir, interestingly, it says that they care not for a heavenly voice to tell them. This is strange since that is the way that all of the prophets knew what was from God, and how they prophesied of the future. If its just a metaphorical story that isnt supposed to be looked at literally, then why does DNC say that it maters little what God had in mind? Seems there are Jews who do take it quite seriously, next to literal, if im not mistaken.
(Edited by Apokalupto)
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butttler
butttler: AA---i totally agree in your post of Isaiah 5:20...its exactly 100% what is going on..calling good evil and calling evil good..it cannot be anything but that...it is so outlandish such views should cause anyone to stop in their tracks and say...No Way this could be from God
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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: He deleted his thread, the one where this entire conversation started, you know the one where DNC begged you to start your own thread on the topic after deleting all of our comments? And then falsely accused us of ambushing him when it was his idea.

(Edited by Apokalupto)
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The flying Squirrel
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Apokalupto
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The flying Squirrel
The flying Squirrel: What"s Changed Nothing
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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: This might change something.
Great documentary all Christians should watch which exposes a lot.


(Edited by Apokalupto)
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The flying Squirrel
The flying Squirrel: yeah thats Good I seen most of it Before
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

DON'T FALL FOR THESE LIES. NONE OF THE POSTERS HERE HAVE EVER STUDIED THE TALMUD. THEY JUST PARROT HATE SITES WITHOUT CHECKING FACTS.

Learn the TRUTH about the Talmud here: Topic: Religion

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The flying Squirrel
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DontNeedChrist
(Post deleted by DontNeedChrist 4 years ago)