Noah's flood is a fiction based on Mesopotamian astronomy

JacquesTrappe: Hi

Most folks normally argue the logical angle against the story presented in the book of Genesis, ie, " There's no way it could have happened, because_______ " and while these are indeed sound arguments, and there are practically countless, they are what I will say is " Not even wrong ", to quote Wolfgang Pauli

There are 3 main types of " flood " terminologies found in Mesopotamian and Egyptian literature:

1: In correspondence between rulers, say 2 Lugal (Sumerian: 𒈗, the Sumerian term for "king, ruler", Literally, the term means "big man" )

For example, when one needed a fast reply, they would head the text with " It is a flood ", meaning in modern terms:

RSVP-ASAP ( I need you to reply as fast as possible, it's an emergency )

2. New moons, ( As well as eclipses staring in the Seleucid period ) were called " floods " ( Among other things ), the reasoning is actually quite complex, and I will explain in great detail in further posts

3. Rulers that were priest-kings often had many titles in literature, ( Known in linguistics as a sobriquet ) and one rather common one is " flood / deluge "



So you have 3 distinctly different types of phrasing used for 3 entirely different things:

1. An emergency, RSVP_ASAP
2. New moons and eclipses
3. As a nickname for a priest-king



To further complicate things, there are orthographic variations, phonetic decay over time, even hidden meanings that were only known to priests who possessed the texts ( I'll cover this as well

In the next post I will do a periodization with linguistic cognates from New Testament Koine Greek, to Hebrew from the Old Testament, to Akkadian, Babylonian and Sumerian, as well as Egyptian, and we will see exactly what the writers of the Torah based this story on

Stay tuned

JacquesTrappe:

First thing we'll do is the Greek and Hebrew terms

In New Testament Greek there are a few terms, I'll start with the last verse in the book using the word rendered in English as " Flood "

Revelation 12:16

" And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth "

Strong's Greek 4215 ( Flood )

ποταμος potamos {pot-am-os'} derivative of the alternate of 4095 (cf 4224) - river , flood , stream , water ; a stream, a river , a torrent, floods

Strong's Greek 4095

πινω pino {pee'-no} a prolonged form of pio {pee'-o}; which (together with another form poo {po'-o}, occurs only as an alternate in certain tenses; - drink , drink of/ to drink ) figuratively, to receive into the soul what serves to refresh strengthen, nourish it unto life eternal

Strong's Greek 4224

ποτος potos {pot'-os} or ποτον poton {pot-on'} from the alternate of 4095, banqueting,a drinking, carousing

The next term we find is in

2 Peter 2:5

" And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly "

Strong's Greek 2627

κατακλυσμος kataklusmos {kat-ak-looce-mos'} from 2626;; n m AV - flood 4; 4 1) inundation, deluge 1a) of Noah's deluge

From Strong's Greek 2626

κατακλυζω katakluzo {kat-ak-lood'-zo} from 2596 and the base of 2830;; v AV - overflow 1; 1 1) to overwhelm with water, to submerge, deluge

Strong's Greek 2596 + 2830

κατα kata {kat-ah'} a primary particle; - according to, after , against , in , by , daily, down from, throughout, according to, toward, along

+

κλυδων kludon {kloo'-dohn} from kluzo (to billow or dash over)- raging, wave, a dashing or surging wave, a surge, a violent agitation of the sea


Luke 6:48

' He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock "

Strong's Greek 4132

πλημμυρα plemmura {plame-moo'-rah} prolonged from 4130;; n f AV - flood 1; 1 1) a flood, whether of sea or of a river

Strong's Greek 4130

πληθω pletho {play'-tho} a prolonged form of a primary pleo {pleh'-o} (which appears only as an alternate in certain tenses and in the reduplicated form pimplemi- fill , accomplish , furnish , full , come ; to fill , to be fulfilled, to be filled

The next Greek term is from

Revelation 12:15

" And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood "

Strong's Greek 4215 ( Flood )

ποταμοφορητος potamophoretos {pot-am-of-or'-ay-tos} from 4215 and a derivative of 5409; TDNT - 6:607,921; adj AV - carried away of the flood 1; 1 1) carried away by a stream (i.e. overwhelmed, drowned in the waters)


Strong's Greek 4215 ( Flood )

ποταμος potamos {pot-am-os'} derivative of the alternate of 4095 (cf 4224) - river , flood , stream , water ; a stream, a river , a torrent, floods

Strong's Greek 4095

πινω pino {pee'-no} a prolonged form of pio {pee'-o}; which (together with another form poo {po'-o}, occurs only as an alternate in certain tenses; - drink , drink of/ to drink ) figuratively, to receive into the soul what serves to refresh strengthen, nourish it unto life eternal

Strong's Greek 4224

ποτος potos {pot'-os} or ποτον poton {pot-on'} from the alternate of 4095, banqueting,a drinking, carousing

And

φορεω phoreo {for-eh'-o} from 5411; - bear , wear ; to bear constantly, wear, of clothing, garments, armour

Strong's Greek 5411

φορος phoros {for'-os} from 5342; TDNT - 9:78,1252; n m AV - tribute 5; 5 1) tribute, esp. the annual tax levied upon houses, lands, and persons

Strong's Greek 5342

φερω phero {fer'-o} a primary verb (for which other and apparently not cognate ones are used in certain tenses only, namely, oio {oy'-o}; and enegko {en-eng'-ko); TDNT - 9:56,1252; v AV - bring 34, bear 8, bring forth 5, come 3, reach 2, endure 2, carry 1, misc 9; 64 1) to carry 1a) to carry some burden 1a1) to bear with one's self 1b) to move by bearing; move or, to be conveyed or borne, with the suggestion of force or speed 1b1) of persons borne in a ship over the sea 1b2) of a gust of wind, to rush 1b3) of the mind, to be moved inwardly, prompted 1c) to bear up i.e. uphold (keep from falling) 1c1) of Christ, the preserver of the universe 2) to bear, i.e. endure, to endure the rigour of a thing, to bear patiently one's conduct, or spare one (abstain from punishing or destroying) 3) to bring, bring to, bring forward 3a) to move to, apply 3b) to bring in by announcing, to announce 3c) to bear i.e. bring forth, produce; to bring forward in a speech 3d) to lead, conduct







------------------------------



Now just going by a reading of New Testament terms from the concordance, a person wouldn't really grasp that older Mesopotamian traditions of referring to a person being a " flood / deluge " ( As stated in my first post ) heavily influenced the Bible, it requires reading older scriptures in Hebrew, like:

Isaiah 59:19 (KJV)

" So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him "

" like a flood "( The enemy )

Strong's Hebrew 5104

נהר nahar {naw-hawr'} from 05102;- river , flood , streams , river side ;stream, (underground) streams

Strong's Hebrew 5102

נהר nahar {naw-har'} a primitive root; - flow together , flow , lightened ; to shine, beam, light, burn,to beam, be radiant,to flow, stream,to flow, stream

Jeremiah 46:7

" Who is this that cometh up as a flood, whose waters are moved as the rivers ? "

" As a flood " ( Who, a person/entity )

Jeremiah 46:8

" Egypt riseth up like a flood, and his waters are moved like the rivers; and he saith, I will go up, and will cover the earth; I will destroy the city and the inhabitants thereof "

" Like a flood " ( Egypt )

Strong's Hebrew 2975

יאור ye`or {yeh-ore'} of Egyptian origin; - river , brooks , flood , streams,river, stream, canal, Nile, Nile-canal, stream, river (Nile) ,Nile-arms, Nile-canals,watercourses,shafts (mining), river (in general)





This shows that the Bible does indeed carry on the earlier literary tradition of priestly literature referring to a person/entity as " a flood ", as I stated in the opening post, and I will give examples in older literature as I get into earlier language cognates

Hebrew-

" Like a flood " ( Egypt )
" like a flood "( The enemy )
" As a flood " ( Who, a person/entity )

Light / shining ( נהר nahar )( Root of " flood " )

Greek-

" Flood " ( Dragon's mouth, ie words )
" of the flood " ( Root meaning- figuratively, to receive life eternal, spiritually )


Pay special attention to the " light/shining " root of " flood " ( nahar ), it will make sense as we get into Egyptian and Akkadian, Sumerian, etc







That said, I have yet to get to the actual word used in Noah's narrative, so just to break this into shorter posts I'll continue in the next post with the language cognates

Biblical phrasing like " living waters " that refer to the wisdom/force that emanates from a priest-king ( What is now known as the " holy spirit " ) actually have a very complex and interesting history that I hope to break down for the reader

Stay tuned

JacquesTrappe:




So let's do the Hebrew term, this is where it gets interesting

Genesis 7:6

" And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth "

מבול mabbuwl {mab-bool'} from 02986 ( in the sense of flowing );- flood , deluge.

Now what information the Hebrew online concordance offers is scant, , it says, as far as older language cognates,:

" possibly old Assyrian (Babylonian) loan-word "


So, the first thing that's rather obvious is the etymology of the word mabbuwl in Hebrew

It comes from the Egyptian term/s:

" wbn ", meaning to rise, to shine, be brilliant
" b'hw " meaning " inundation / flood
" b'hi " verb, meaning to be inundated, flooded


So the Egyptian word " wbn ", meaning " to rise, to shine, be brilliant " is a likely semiotic congruent to the meaning of " Light / shining ( נהר nahar ), the root of " flood " in Hebrew

The " n " hieroglyph for " waters " was the original source of the later hieroglyph of the northern kingdom of Egypt that looked like this:

~~~~

Reference: n (N35) —(en:Gardiner's Sign List, Egyptian)

Deshret, from Ancient Egyptian, was the formal name for the Red Crown of Lower Egypt and for the desert Red Land on either side of Kemet (Black Land), the fertile Nile river basin. When combined with the Hedjet (White Crown) of Upper Egypt, it forms the Pschent (Double Crown), in Ancient Egyptian called the sekhemti.

The Red Crown in Egyptian language hieroglyphs eventually was used as the vertical letter "n" . The original "n" hieroglyph from the Predynastic Period, and the Old Kingdom was the sign depicting ripples of water.

~~~~

n (N35) —(en:Gardiner's Sign List)

Later use of the Red Crown came to be as the vertical letter n, a phonogram, versus the horizontal letter 'n', Gardiner no. 35,

Both are prepositional equivalents, with the horizontal letter n, the N-water ripple (n hieroglyph) being more common, as well as more common to form parts of Egyptian language words requiring the phoneme 'n'.

( The Red Crown hieroglyph is used 35 times in the Rosetta Stone alone

The relationships between Hebrew and Egyptian, in terms of these topics, deserves it's own thread, but I want to stay on topic here, so...


Looking to Akkadian, is where we find the direct cognate, changed only slightly by phonetic decay:

Sumerian: uru [FLOOD] (15x: Ur III, Old Babylonian) "flood, deluge, ( Of light )" Akkadian: abūbu

Sumerian: udnua [MOON] (2x: Old Babylonian) wr. ud-nu2-a "the astronomical New Moon or Dark Moon" Akkadian: bubbulu



We know for certain that the term " bubbulu " is read " floodwaters / deluge " because that's how it's used in many texts, the best example being Hammurabi's stele, in which the " new moon " is referred to as the " floodwaters "

( As I stated in the opening post



So now we have:

Sumerian-

Udnua - Floodwaters ( New moon )
Uru - flood ( Also " seat of power / throne " )

Akkadian, Babylonian-

Bubbulu - Floodwaters ( New moon )
Abubu - flood ( Also " seat of power / throne " )

Egyptian-

" wbn ", meaning to rise, to shine, be brilliant
" b'hw " meaning " inundation / flood
" b'hi " verb, meaning to be inundated, flooded

Hebrew-

" mabbuwl " מבול , flood, deluge
" nahar ( shine, root of " flood )


Naturally Akkadian does not have the same pronunciation as Sumerian ( Logographic to phonetic language transition )




Here is the etymology through all the languages, starting with Hebrew and going through Egyptian to Babylonian, Akkadian and Sumerian, click image to enlarge:

jacquestrappe




That's two of the uses of " flood " terminologies stated in the opening post, stay tuned

Angry Beaver: Noah's flood is a crock of shite as are most of the stories for kids.....errrrrrrrr the bible I mean

JacquesTrappe: Sometimes I get the impression you people eat paint chips

Angry Beaver: Yum, chippies

Aspect212: I have to disagree. There are good reasons to believe in Noah's flood.

1. The Inerrant Bible teaches the Noah Flood.
2. The story of Noah and the flood is from the ancient Mesopotamian world. Ancient Mesopotamians ascribed truth to myth. The Greeks ascribed untruth to myth.
3. The Noah account presents itself as historical, not mythological.
4. Noah and his sons are listed in a later genealogical record in the historical book of 1 Chronicles 1:3-4.
5. Isaiah referred to Noah and the flood as historical (Isaiah 54:9).
6. At the time of Ezekiel the Prophet, Noah was still considered one of the great figures in Jewish history (Ezekiel 14:14, 20).
7. Jesus affirmed that Noah and the flood were historical. (Matthew 24:32-38).
8. The author of Hebrews places Noah in the hall of faith, along with other historical figures, like Abraham, Moses, and King David. (Hebrews 11:7).
9. The Apostle Peter twice referred to Noah and the Flood as a literal person and event. (1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:5). He even compared the Flood with the literal destruction of the world by fire at the end of the world. (2 Peter 3:5-13).
10. There is abundant evidence that water once covered the entire earth.
11. There are worldwide flood stories, which support the case.
12. Flood stories were told by the Babylonians, the Sumerians, the Greeks, the Hindus, the Chinese, the Hawaiians, the Mexicans and the Algonquins. All these report how the survivor (with perhaps his wife, child, and a friend or two) was saved from the destruction of a universal flood.
13,Lists of Sumerian kings treats the flood as a real event. "[Then] the Flood swept over [the earth] and when kingship was lowered [again] from heaven, kingship was [first] in Kish." (Pritchard, Ancient Near Eastern Texts, 265)
14. "A number of versions of a deluge story have been discovered among the cuneiform documents excavated at various Near Eastern sites." (Harrison, Introduction to the Old Testament, p.557).

Zanjan: "10. There is abundant evidence that water once covered the entire earth."

That was long before sentient life left the oceans for dry land......hundreds of millions of years ago. The flood takes place in the life and times of modern humans; the deluge is sudden and the water didn't cover the planet - it covered the "world" - that is, it wiped their world away. A new world replaced it.

Fact: At the end of the last Ice Age, 12,000 years ago, sea levels were 400 ft lower than they are now and they're still rising. While they've risen and lowered cyclically in deep time history of the earth, we speaking ONLY of the time period where man is conscious of God.

Soon, all coastal cities will be submerged under the sea but I don't see anyone moving to higher ground yet. They continue to build on site despite warnings.

There have always been floods anywhere you go on earth, some of them mega floods - this is nothing new for physical events. The Bible is talking about spiritual events - those are certainly very REAL. The spiritual state is the cause - it's followed by effect on this earthly palne.

By the way, prehistoric humans lived in a much smaller world than we do - the world of a child.