Christianity has rooted on Judaism, Judaism points out what's a mamzer, and Christianity portraits Jesus as a mamzer. (Page 4) butttler: dnc...i wont go back and forth with this...Before Abraham was I AM ( Jesus) was there...His deity makes it impossible for Him to be a mamzer...for He was never created but is the creator of all things...the proof God says is in all of creation and your own conscience..Romans ch. 1and 2  Zanjan: DNC, you've not provided any scriptural reference - citation please. You've not provided a sanctioned definition either Definition of a bastard: In English dictionary- Miriam Webster 1. informal an unpleasant or despicable person. 2. (of a thing) no longer in its pure or original form; debased. 3. archaic•derogatory a person born of parents not married to each other.  Jaguar Essence: zanjan It seems you have an issue with reading comprehension, I never said that Jesus being a mamzer was the only reason why educated religious Jews don't accept Jesus as the Messiah, nor as G-d Himself, nor as the son of G-d. Please copy and paste where i said the only reason why educated religious Jews don't accept Jesus is because he's a mamzer. It seems you have the issue in accepting others spiritual inheritance, sources of knowledge and understading, as well spiritual path. YOUR religion DOESN'T even give you the fulfillment to see others DON'T need to comply to YOUR version. Your hunger to he right over others shoes your spiritual void. Go and take care of your own spiritual fulfillment and stop humping legs for attention to validate your spiritual path. Thr fact remains the same, you don't know Judaic spiritual inheritance and sources of knowledge to determine what is what. I hope you find fulfillment, we aren't responsible to satisfy your needs.  DontNeedChrist: Forgive me Essence but I'm going to lift what you typed in the very first post of this thread to refresh zanjan's memory. The source of the mamzer prohibition is biblical. Deuteronomy 23:3 A mamzer (plural: mamzerim) is commonly translated as “bastard." According to the Mishnah, a mamzer is the offspring of any prohibited sexual union, thus anyone born to an incestuous union OR TO A WOMAN LEGALLY MARRIED TO A MAN OTHER THAN THE FATHER. Bastard, adjective illegitimate in birth. "An illegitimate child is a child born out of wedlock, or an illegitimate child may also be a child born in wedlock but sired by a man who was not the mother's husband." Devarim - Deuteronomy - Chapter 23:3 A bastard shall not enter the assembly of the Lord; even the tenth generation shall not enter the assembly of the Lord. Judaism doesn't go by Webster's or Oxford's or Funk and Wagnall's definitions. This is HALACHA. According to HALACHA jesus fits the definition. This has become a dead horse. Jaguar Essence: xrusaoros pegasos I agree with you, the Bible certainty demands a lifetime of learning. Jaguar Essence: dontneedchrist Correct, you have explained more extensively and in more details why educated religious Jews don't accept Jesus as the Messiah, and it's divine claim. This topic was done to explain why Jews see Jesus as a mamzer, and I choose to show the most obvious. Zanjan: Essence, I have an issue with injustice - a child or a dog can understand what is unjust and doest have to be taught that. This is proven by scientific experiments with babies and toddlers. However, a child has to be taught how to be just and so does an adult. If they knew that inherently, there wouldn't be a need for Revelators. It doesn't matter how many excuses one comes up with for rejecting a Revelator; there is still only ONE reason. One might have many reasons for not joining a religion but only ONE reason for calling a Revelator a false Prophet. By the way, this topic isn't about me. If you're done talking about me, perhaps we can get back to topic. Jaguar Essence: butttler You may have proven to Christians why Jesus is a mamzer, I'm not going to debate your understanding it's meant to be for you. Nonetheless, you can't proof to educate religious Jews why Jesus isn't a mamzer. You've not come to accept that Jews have a depth in knowledge and understading in our spiritual inheritance and sources of knowledge. To each their own, it's important we come to the acceptance there's ONE G-d understood differently, and that G-d Himself is the Ruler of Man's heart. He has given us a task to discover Him in our predetermined rolls. We ALL are limbs of the same body, and every limb has an specific task; you've yours as a Christian qnd I've mine as a Jew. We can agree to disagree, because your task is within the scope of being a Christian, doesn't mean to me that your task is less valuable and meaningful than mine as a Jew.  Apokalupto: Halacha, right. Not Torah. Got it. Also not Merriam Websters, but also not Torah. Just HALACHA. Zanjan: The Hebrew word "mamzer, literally means "estranged person". The other meaning, according to Jewish law is a person born from certain forbidden relationships, such as incest (as defined by the Bible). The Jews were polgygamists and slave owners so how shall we read Abraham's relationships? DontNeedChrist: "Halacha, right. Not Torah. Got it. Also not Merriam Websters, but also not Torah. Just HALACHA." Torah IS HALACHA. But you deny and disparage the ORAL part of it therefore you come to an erroneous conclusion. Not the first time nor the last. butttler: dnc----there is no evidence in Holy Scriptures of an additional Oral torah...as a powerful side note...this oral torah says smart yet sinful rabbi's can overrule God Himself even at Gods objection to this....that is pure proof oral torah is not from God but man DontNeedChrist: oh butttler, your obsession with that is beyond disturbing. Let it go and take a nap. Jaguar Essence: zanjan You've a total and different understading of our Jewish spiritual inheritance and sources of knowledge, I see injustice done by you assuming to know and understand what you don't know, you don't have the depth, knowledge and understading as educated religious Jews do, to determine unbiasedly what you agree or disagree with. You see, I haven't taken away Jesus's importance, I believe undoubtedly that Jesus had a message for non-Jews, just as Mohammed's message is equally important and valuable for Muslims or humanity. As for Jews, what was missing was the Zohar to complete the last part of the puzzle, which was given to us after Jesus death. We're COMPLETE with our spiritual sources of knowledge. The issue with non-Jews like yourself is the pretentious assumption to claim to know and understand what was never known or understood. Jesus and Mohammed's message ISN'T meant for us, that's simple, direct, and a fact. 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