End-times-prophecy (Page 2)

Zanjan: I agree with you that most Christians don't know the Bible - I've spent a lot of time teaching it to them; they didn't even know many of the characters....except for those they'd seen in major movies.

It's such a pleasure when door-knockers come around because I can carry on a discussion with them - they had the whole thing memorized! I love talking about God but most of the Christians I've met prefer to talk about something else. Sad.

You realize you're rare among Christians - they never mention Jesus returning 3 times. They don't understand Revelations so they skim over only if they have to. They don't consider it the Gospel.

m_leonora1111: You know that our mission is preach the gospel. Never get tired, this is our work on earth. I love you, just as I love myself.

Zanjan: For those in my religion, it's only slightly different. We separate duty from mission.

Our first duty is to mention His Name - by this, I mean just uttering the Name. The Name is very powerful so just speaking it ends our responsibility and we can move on.

However, if the person who hears it asks any questions, we only answer the questions they ask. If we find that they're a seeker, we invite them to a sit-down discussion- they choose the environment they feel most comfortable with.

There's a difference between conveying information (raising awareness) and teaching the Faith (presenting models). We're forbidden to proselytize or use any kind of compulsion.

Our mission is to guide at least one soul to the path of God. This is pretty generic; since each person's spiritual journey is unique, we determine what they're looking for then make suggestions. The rest is up to them.

We encourage independent investigation of truth and support all religions of God. That continues in the next world - it's the work of the Kingdom of God.

chronology: Just curious Zan. What are your thoughts about spiritualism and their ideas about the after life?

Zanjan: That's a very vague description. It can run the gamut from tribal culture to mediums and witchcraft. Those are folk approaches to the spiritual world, not religions of God.

We can agree on the existence of the soul, that we're all spiritual beings, there's a hereafter, and love makes the world go round. Yet humans can't guide themselves rightly. We need to be honest about that.

Most of the time, they have no idea what they're doing, what they're dabbling with, or where they're going. They can't raise themselves up. Who, among them has achieved real greatness? Who has accurately seen farther than 5 years into the future? So, how are they in a position to determine what's good for themselves and others?

Everyone knows they should act in the best interest of others, and for the good of the whole but they don't do that. What shapes them?

The highest moral standard we can adopt is that which God has sent down to us; it comes with a serious commitment, called the Covenant. Spiritualists make no promises. There can be no rise to the lofty heights of the heavens until one has achieved complete self-abnegation before the Ancient Beauty.

chronology: Thanks for your reply zan. Interesting as ever.

m_leonora1111: Let's go on with the end times prophecy.
Who is the Remnant Church?
The remnant church is something that many Christians don't think about, because most professing Christians trust that their belief alone in Jesus makes them part of the true church of God, whether or not they are truly walking with the Lord. But is this right? Or does God have true remnant people during these end times? Who is the remnant church talked about in the Bible? Throughout His Word, God has declared that He would keep a people who would obey Him and not wander from His truth.

Take a look at the following verses: Isaiah 1:9, 10:20. Jeremiah 23:3, 31:7. Joel 2:32. Romans 9:27.
Please don't think that by saying "Israel" that the Bible just means the literal nation of Israel. Because the literal nation of Israel are no longer God's chosen people. Christians have now taken on the name Israel in a spiritual sense. Did you catch what Paul said above in Romans?
Even though the number of the children of Israel is as the sand of the sea, in other words, a HUGE number, only a remnant means - a small amount left. This applies to the Christian world today. Although there are millions upon millions of professing Christians, only a few in comparison will actually be saved. Now that may shock you, I don't know, but it's the truth.
Jesus confirmed in Matthew 7:14.... Only a Few will walk down the narrow path. There are so many proffesing Christians who are walking down the broad path to destruction. Because they believe they can have Jesus in one hand and the world in the other hand. But to be a part of the true remnant church we need to surrender ALL to Christ.
There is a remnant people in these end times who Satan is making war with. And what makes them stand out to Satan as the true remnant church of God? Revelation 12:17..... So they are a commandment keeping people (including the seventh day Bible Sabbath) and they also have the testimony of Jesus. But what is the testimony of Jesus? Revelation 19:10..... So, the true remnant church of God obey Him and keep His Commandments, and they have the spirit of prophecy. In other words, they have a special understanding of Bible prophecy.
And when you a remnant piece of material, how does it compare to the ORIGINAL? It is exactly the same right? So the end time remnant people will be living their faith in the exact same way as the New Testament church. They "look" the same.
With these things in mind, let's look at the other signs that tell us who the true remnant church is.

Zanjan: Like anything else, one takes a word or phrase in context. Sometimes, the text is speaking about the Holy Land (Israel, the physical location); sometimes, it's the faithful believers; sometimes, its a nation - that is, a specific civilization. Those who belong to a nation could be spread out all over the planet.

The "Children of Israel" describes a spiritual state of being, not a country or any specific religion. This term refers to individuals who've discovered the true spirit, the spirit of God in their hearts. They possess the Holy Spirit, their salvation. They’re selfless souls.

“Although there are millions upon millions of professing Christians, only a few in comparison will actually be saved.”

The Children of Israel don’t need to be saved – they've already made that journey and that transformation, just like Jacob did. The text denotes a time when only a few of them are left. It doesn’t indicate the date or place.

"This applies to the Christian world today"

God is the judge of who has the true spirit in their hearts. YOU can't make this decision - it's about individual souls, not a religion. No one knew who would be saved. They don’t know that now either. They only understand why one can’t be saved.

"they have a special understanding of Bible prophecy."

One can't have any understanding of that until the prophecy has been fulfilled. John saw something, that doesn't imply he understood everything that he saw.

Christians say they're waiting for Christ to return; logically, one doesn't wait for something they already have.

Zanjan: How the spiritual cycle works: It works for ALL mankind. The Bible affirms this.

In every religion, there are a number of believers who are faithless and a number who are faithful. The Bible speaks of the balance between these numbers as the seasons in the cycle change. The scales weigh heavily on one side, then even up, then weigh heavily on the other side.

At one time, the Holy Spirit was present, then it goes away. One can be faithful to the religion but not have the Holy Spirit.

The remnant are those who possess the Holy Spirit BEFORE winter sets in. These are the only souls among believers who are saved. Once winter arrives, the Holy Spirit has disappeared - ALL mankind has gone dormant. There is no remnant. All souls are either sleeping or dead. ALL need to be saved.

Thus, when the new Revelator arrives, NONE have the Holy Spirit. However, there will be some sensitive souls. He will awaken them; from these, He’ll choose some to resurrect. They are saved. (it's impossible to resurrect a religion)

Nevertheless, one never knows their own placement in the eyes of God until they pass on to the next world. We call that the final judgment. Only then will that be made known to them. IF you are eternally saved; likely you'll be placed at the bottom of the heap in heaven.

m_leonora1111: Zanjan, your believing and teaching is not in harmony with the Bible. All that I wrote is completely Biblical. Everything that I say you can read it in the Bible. So if you say something write where I can read it in the Bible or find it. That's why we FEW Christians have an Biblical understanding of this End Time Church.

m_leonora1111: Take a look how the remnant church today is.
1. The remnant church will be a Bible believing church, and stand on the Rock of God's Word alone. Rather than on the tradation of man.... John 17:2.
2. The remnant church will be a people who search the scriptures daily looking for the truth. ....John 5:39.
3. The remnant church will have Jesus Christ as the centre, teaching that He is the ONLY way..... John 14:6.
4. The remnant church will be watching and waiting for Jesus to return, and will be preaching of His soon physical second coming......Luke 12:37-39.
5. The remnant church, knowing that their bodies are the temple of God, will be health conscious and will not destroying their bodies with constant junk food, smoking and alcohol. .....1 Corinthians 6:19.
6. The remnant church will be preaching a message of growing in faith in the Lord and striving to make your election sure. .....2 Peter 1:5-7.
7. The remnant church will be proclaiming the nearness of Christ second coming and will be preaching the Three Angels Messages in Revelation and warning the world against the Beast's Mark. .... Revelation 14:6-11.
8. The remnant church will be warning the world of sin and teaching that no sin can enter heaven and anyone who CONTINUES to live in sin will not enter into the kingdom of God. ....1 Corinthians 6:9-10.
9. The remnant church will be the saints as described in Revelation. ....Revelation 14:12. The remnant church will not just have faith IN Jesus, they will be keeping the faith OF Jesus. In other words, they are following in His footsteps and obeying God's Law of love, the Ten Commandments (including the Sabbath Commandment) John 15:10.
10. The remnant church will be unified in the teaching of the following important Bible truths. ..... The Second Coming of Jesus | Truth about the Rapture Theory | Truth about Israel | The Bible Sabbath | The Real Anti Christ | The True Gospel of Christ |Speaking on Tongues | The Ten Commandments | and MUCH more.
So, who is the remnant church of God?

Who fits the description above, and which church is preaching and teaching the important truths above? There is only one church that fits all of the characteristics, and that is the .........church.
Please note: Even though the ....... church was started by God to take the full gospel and final warning messages to the World, many of the people within the........ church are not living for Jesus. So God's TRUE church are those few within the ........... church movement who are actively LIVING the truth and sounding the warning to the world. Not convinced? Then let we study the above Bible truths and with open eyes you will see that the ...... church is the only denomination with these truths.
Is your church proclaiming the three angel's messages? If not, then why not? The Three Angels Messages is one of the most important message to go to the world in these end times we living in. And the ....... church is the ONLY church (the faithful few) proclaiming this message.
Are you part of God remnant? If not, then is time to come out of Babylon and join with God's end time people.

Zanjan: You're asking me to "interpret " scripture. I don't do that.

How not to interpret scripture:
Cite the scriptural location and quote it without comment. Here are your references:

(1) John 17:2
" As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him."

(2) John 5:39.
"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

The above are taken out of their context. The context for the first extract is here:

"These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

-------

Here's the context for the second citation:

37 "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

41 I receive not honour from men.

42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you."
--------------

There is no mention of the word "remnant". Neither mentions the end-times prophecy.

I can guess all the other references you posted will be random as well so I didn't bother looking them up.

You know where Jesus talked about the signs of the appearance of the Promised One. You know He said you could recognize them just like the seasons. This is indicative of a cyclical dynamic. Wash, rinse repeat.

Zanjan: I thought this topic was to discuss the Book of Revelations.

m_leonora1111: Yes, but BIBLICAL. And also the Book of Daniel

m_leonora1111: Why many Christians don't proclaim the Three Angels Messages? It is one of the most important message to go to the world in these end times we live in. Are you preaching this messages? Are your church leaders preaching this warning and loving message?

m_leonora1111: Zanjan i didn't ask you for interpreting scriptures. Do you have read which are the true remnant church of God? Do you have the characteristic exactly how it was in the New Testament?
You are just bring your way to understand scriptures without study if what someone write or say if it is Biblical.

Zanjan: You say "Biblical" - there is no such thing as Biblical understanding, there's only Biblical text. Understanding doesn't come from any book- that is between the individual and God. Only a Prophet of God can *confirm* whether one's own understanding is correct or not.

Since we're speaking of Prophecy, let me quote from Biblical text:

2 Pet. 1:20-21..

"knowing this first: that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in olden times by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

As Jesus also said: ( Mathew 24:36-37)

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.…"

Logically, somebody will know after the event has taken place. The only way we can have the right meaning of prophecy is if it HAS been fulfilled.

So, we have to do one of two things: Look at history from the time the statement was made and locate actual facts that demonstrate it HAS been fulfilled OR use a successive Prophet's confirmation. Bonus if we can do both.

We've used the quote for the remanent of the Children of Israel - it doesn't state any names so we can't use any other identifiers. No Biblical text states "remnant of the church" or "remanent of the body of Christ".

Let's be clear, if we're talking about "the end of times", it must be about what happens BEFORE the Son of Man appears.

There are prophecies about what happens AFTER the second coming (the beginning of times)

Zanjan: You referenced Matthew. Here is Matthew 24: 20 - 25:

20 "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before."



-----------------------

Who are the "elect"? We don't know, no names are mentioned. What is the historical time? No dates are given. Matthew doesn't indicate to whom this statement applies. It would be very helpful to know the target audience - who is Matthew speaking to, the Jews or the Christians? Doesn't say. (Matthew's gospel was written about 50 AD).

My own take focuses on verse 23. He seems to be saying the event where people are running away will occur BEFORE the second coming of Christ. So this must be happening while the dispensation of Jesus the Christ is current. What are people running away from? Is it justice, injustice, or running away from religion?

Let's see, there's been a whole bunch of firsts since Matthew walked the earth, speaking to a live audience. When He spoke, people were still looking for the Messiah but He was right under their noses. There were already false Christs in Matthew's time, men who professed to be the messiah.

How long was the dispensation of Jesus Christ? I have a date (because it's been fulfilled) but I'm not going to give that right now because you want only Biblical text.

We could use math - some prophecies have numbers and Christians have used them in an attempt to determine the timing of various events. First, we have to specify which event the prophecy speaks to. Which end are we speaking of? There's been lots of beginnings and endings.

Zanjan: Referring back to the three angels; as I've said before, this means nothing to you unless you believe it has already occurred. Christians don't believe any of it has; as long as they believe this, they know nothing.

Let's say a Christian believes it has partly occurred. We know the first judgment was of the same generation of Jesus. He said that certain prophecies would be fulfilled before this generation passed away. We know what happened to the Jewish nation in 70 AD, so the Jews had been judged. Historically Confirmed. One Angel accounted for, two more to go.

The Christians dominated for a thousand years but trouble had been brewing for several hundred years prior to this end - the "Great Schism" was the result; it was all downhill after that.

Christians had been judged. They battled against Islam and lost the Holy Land during the bloody crusades. Christian nations entered the dark ages and the horrifying inquisition was its flagship. Confirmed. That goes on record as the worst of tribulations in a religion of God.

For mankind, as a whole, the species was yet to see its worst. The second angel had arrived. One more to go.

We move to Islam. The Ottoman empire fell. Islam went downhill after that. They lost posession of the Holy Land and entered their own age of darkness; the rise of fanactical dicatorships among them proves this. Muslims had been judged. Confirmed.

Third angel had arrived. Therefore, *I* can name each one of them. In light of several thousand years of human history, let each make their own discovery.

m_leonora1111: Sorry my sister all that you says is just carnal mind thinking. Revelation means what will happen in the future. A question for you personal. Revelation 12:17 and 14:12, are you one of them? Yes or No? If it is yes, I have an other question, and if it is no, I have an other question. And if you cannot answer then I will help you.

Zanjan: Revelations means "disclosure". Not all of that book contains prophecy. Where there is a prophecy, it's not about OUR future, it was about the future of the ancients.

I answered your question before but it seems to have escaped you so I'll say it differently.

Rev 12: 17 I believe in all the Prophets of God, including Jesus Christ. However, I carry God's newest Testamony (Revelation) with me. At this stage in history, it's still in its infancy. This is the one I follow. The dragon can't harm it because it has divine protection.

Rev 14: 12 This was specifically intended for Christians awaiting Christ's return. I'm not a Christian.

m_leonora1111: Rev 14:12, they are the true Christians of God.

Zanjan: The word is "WERE". They were those who kept the Covenant.

m_leonora1111: I am one of them today. So we are!! We are the only people today that can preach the Three Angels Messages.

m_leonora1111: You have say that you are not a Christian. How do you think that you can interpret the Bible without the Holy Spirit of God, better then a Christian?