Is the Trinity Doctrine Biblical?

m_leonora1111: I want to talk about the Three gods in one.

m_leonora1111: Why many denominations are holding to a three Gods separated but is one? Because all of them is under man's teachings rather then God teaching.

chronology: M. Unfortunately the Bible says nothing of the origin of God. Other than He is from the 'everlasting past'. So you are asking about the nature of a Being trillions of years old. For humans to understand the nature of God is kind of like expecting a fly to understand a NASA space craft designed to land on Mars.

The Bible makes it clear that there are three distinct 'Persons, not simply Personalities' that comprise God.
A a number of occasions Jesus spoke to a Person who those around Him could not see. They could hear a voice but not see the speaker. Jesus was subject to that voice, He gave thanks to that voice, He begged the speaker of the voice not to be executed. So it is not simply a case of schizophrenia, the Being He spoke to was real.

The Holy Spirit is also referred to on a number of occasions speaking. If He was simply a kind of energy as some suggest, then He would not be making decisions and instructing people to carry them out.

So the majority of followers of Jesus have concluded that the only explanation for all this is that 'God' is Three distinct Beings. At the same time the Bible makes it very clear that the Three Beings comprise one entity. They are all equal members of that Entity.

Humans will never understand this in our present level of development. But the idea of the Trinty is as important as the belief in Adam. If you reject the idea of Adam or the Trinity, however illogical those beliefs seem, then you are headed down a very dangerous road indeed.

I just wish we had some Apillachian story tellers here to tell us a story about some Guy who made a really dumb decision in life. Those folks are way better than I will ever be at painting word pictures. That is what happens when you reject the idea of the Trinity, you set off on a journey with a jumbled up map. And as the story tellers would explain, your journey will not end well.

m_leonora1111: Hi! If the holy spirit is a god, why in the whole Bible you don't find the word god holy spirit?
If it is an other person, why we cannot find any phrases that God has speak to the holy spirit and he has answered Him, or Jesus spoke to him, or both and he have talk to them? Show me where I can find it. I know that the Biblle says that Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ and the Father. It is something that belong to them. And Biblical we found that the Holy Spirit is the power of the Almighty God.
Is time my friend is to let only the Bible the sources of our faith. Man teaching or God teaching.

chronology: Interesting. But if the Holy Spirit is simply a force, or energy, then how did He Speak to Paul? Energy does not walk around talking to people. Again, this is a really complex subject. If we were door mice who got into a NASA Space Hanger we would never in a billion years understand what a Mars Landing Craft was that we saw there. We can never in this life understand God.

m_leonora1111: Look at this Important Notes: Let me confirm I am NOT to trying to describe the nature of the Holy Spirit, as that is a mystery. I am simply sharing the clear Bible truth of WHOSE presence it brings to us. God has NOT revealed the nature of the Spirit, but He HAS revealed WHERE it comes from, and WHOSE presence it brings to us.
Revelation 5:1,6,7. Acts 2:32-33.
These are very revealing verses regarding the Holy Spirit.

chronology: Well I stay within the teachings of the Church councils 1700 year's ago when they affirmed the Trinity. The Church of England today remains within the community of churches who affirm the Trinity. If you are ever in England am sure a Vicar can explain this to you.

Personally I have no interest what you believe, but if you say you don't believe in the Trinity then frankly I don't know how you can make any sense of some parts of the gospels.

m_leonora1111: My friend, you are following man's teaching and you are spiritual blind. Ask one of them if the word Trinity appear in the Bible. If you think that you know the Bible better then me. Show me where I can found any single words with god holy spirit.
I follow only the Bible teaching. If the trinity doctrine is biblical, why it is well known till in the 18th century?
Show me where I can read a passage where the Holy Spirit speak with GOD or JESUS.
Ask your church leaders. Thanks

chronology: Well we will never agree I see. All I can suggest is next time you are in England call in to a Church of England Church during services there and ask the Vicar to explain why the understanding of the Trinity is important.

Just a shame we do have any story tellers from Dixie here. Using Home spun Southern Wisdom they could tell you a tale of a man setting out on a journey to meet someone he had no notion of as a person.

Just curious, do you believe Jesus is God? That is to say God's co equal Son. If the answer is no, you are are in even more error than just falling for the no Trinity scam.

m_leonora1111: Again you are following your church leaders. Ask them where in the Bible you can READ god holy spirit. I am following Jesus not my church leaders. I think that you never have open a bible my friend.

chronology: M very interesting.

m_leonora1111: Thanks, I'm wonder why no-one ask me something about this three separate gods in one.

elsafer: Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to Him, and He will make your paths straight.

Proverbs 4v7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

m_leonora1111: To obtain wisdom, we must surrender ALL to Jesus and He will open our minds, just like He has done for His Disciples.

Zanjan: Chron: " He begged the speaker of the voice not to be executed"

That's not how the story goes. He had asked God to quickly bring Him to His glory. Where's the glory in running away or being ignored?

Before Jesus began His mission, He told His mother how His life would end. He had come into the world to be martyred, to fulfill that prophecy. He told His disciples too. Peter didn't really believe it. Jesus knew what the Will of God was but His followers didn't.

Why would God deny Jesus any request? He could have saved Himself instead of letting Judas go do the deed. Again, in the Garden of Gethsemane; He said God could have prevented the arrest if He asked! He chose not to.

What is the "cup" He spoke of when asking God to take it from Him? It could only be this wretched earthly life - to hasten that moment of His martyrdom. His power and influence, once He had ascended, would be far greater than on earth. Look, His own disciples were falling asleep!

By the way, an entity can't have other entities in it.....not even a pregnant woman; the second entity was never part of the woman and doesn't stay there. God isn't a human and doesn't have a body.

Christians are the only people who've interpreted God's essence. There is no foundation for that in any of the world's scriptures.

Zanjan: Chron, how do you think people in the hereafter communicate?

The voice Paul heard was Jesus - Paul didn't know that, Jesus identified Himself. Many people saw Jesus after the crucifixion - it's an odd mental state. At first, those people didn't recognize it was Jesus either.

Nobody knows why Paul didn't see a vision of Jesus, only heard His voice. Doesn't matter, does it? We saw the outcome. If something is real, it produces fruit.

chronology: Interesting as ever zan. Bhuddism, Kirishna, Islam, Christianity, all have traditions about talking to dead people. But traditionally spiritualists have become known for doing so during their services.

James Randi insists all religion, including spiritualism is bunkum.

Zanjan: Anyone can talk to dead people - if you hear them talking back, that could be problematic. Spiritualists say they can channel the dead.........why can't they do that with the living?

You had written: ""ask the Vicar to explain why the understanding of the Trinity is important. "

Why? If I had his attention, I'd ask him to back it up with concrete evidence.

If believing that was important to Jesus or God, why didn't they say so? Jesus told us what's important - to love God with all your heart, mind and soul. That's how you will be judged, not on some Biblical interpretation.

At the Pentecost, were the Apostles inhabited by another person when they spoke to the crowd? There’s no description of a strange voice, only that the Apostles were convincing on that particular day. Nobody asked “Who is speaking to us right now?”so, I’m guessing they weren’t possessed by demons, angels or multiple personalities.

What happened after they went home for supper? Let's ask some reasonable questions. For some reason, the power was with the Apostles on that day - the Bible doesn't mention a repeat of this event after that incident. Also, this was the only teaching event where the number of new believers is recorded.

Maybe this is recounted in such detail because the results were shocking - they didn't expect such a resounding response; that hadn't happened before. What changed? Not the teachings.

Could this be the reason Jesus wanted to hasten His martyrdom? The power of the Holy Spirit only works on receptive hearts.........they were fresh out of the grieving period and His sacrifice had emboldened them to speak as unrestrained as the wind.

chronology: Interesting as ever zan. You are a well of information.
I have heard Penticostalists speaking in tongues as they call it. I still don't think a normal human could have produced the string of what sounded like gibberish that the speaker made. Maybe it was a spirit, I don't know. And have no interest in finding out.

Zanjan: Well, as you can see the way they interpret "tongues'" comes to nothing. It's just an act. The rest of us know it means speaking in a form of language one can understand. Otherwise, wisdom dictates one should keep silent.

There's no doubt the Apostles spoke powerfully with reason and conviction. It would be off the tip of their tongue, not reading notes from a speech. The words of the just set hearts aflame with love but fry the wrongdoers.

Jesus said He brought them a sword - the above is the double-edged sword. Only the pure in heart, the innocent, can lift it.

Zanjan: Now, back to the Gods. The Bible says there is only ONE God. The Jews recited the shema to remind themselves that their own perception of God is from a fractured lense - God is incomprehensible. There's no description of a "Godhead".

No one can describe God, only the way He moves. No man can look on His face, else they'd die. Not even Moses could. Moses could only hear God's Voice directly and there was no problem with the people understanding that. That's all that Jesus claimed for Himself too.

If this situation is the truth, then it continues to be the truth in Christianity, including all future religions of God. The part can't see the whole and no human can ascend to the Majestic heights where the Sovereign Lord dwells. How do the clergy pretend they can??

If the Almighty descended into His own creation, He'd be changeable - morphing from absolute perfection to imperfection. God says He's UNchangable. You can't have it both ways.

The moment you conceive God, you're wrong. So, to conceive a Godhead is wrong. It makes partners with God. How can that be when God is ABOVE all?

Who's words are more important - Christ's or those of the clergy? WHO leads you and who do you bow before? Maybe it's time for the clergy to bow.

As a side note, when Jesus chose His first crew, not one of them was a member of the clergy.,

Zanjan: So, when did Christians first get this notion of "Godhead"? It's a pagan concept, check it out.

A little sleuthing gets answers. We note that many new Christians came from pagan backgrounds - about 300 years after Jesus, we see a surge in numbers with the clergy appealing to pagans using themes that were familiar to them to get them on board. That's circumstantial evidence to say it was their fault.

What we do know is that King Constantine's belief was 'Don't destroy your enemies, integrate them". Problem is, they bring in their baggage and it's no so easy to eliminate.

There's proof that Christians were believing that in 500 AD because Muhammad talked about it and it's addressed in the Quran.

Muhammad sounds very indignant about it, saying God has no peers or partners. He creates, He doesn't 'beget'. He explains the Sonship and repeats that several times throughout the Quran. Christians paid no mind to it yet no Christian was an authority on the matter - the Quran stresses this point.

Then came the Bab; He said the exact same thing. Then came Baha'u'llah, Who also said the same thing. Thus, 3 Revelators of God have explained and agreed on the nature of the Revelator's relationship with God.

They say the world of God and the world of men are not connected. They're completely separate. The Revelator is a special creation; He brings the world of God into relation with the world of man. The Revelator is a human, not a demi-god or a god. He's a servant of God - that is, God's Ambassador, Who does God's bidding 24/7 under all conditions because He has no ego.

They all say the Holy Spirit is a power that issues from the Revelator, and He bestows it on whomever He chooses. This is not our decision. It's the power of the Creative Word that gives life to souls and raises them from the dead.

Zanjan: In short, the successive Revelators are saying 'Leave your baggage outside the door before you enter".

Aspect212: Good books showing the biblical basis for the Trinity, are "The Forgotten Trinity," by James White, and "God in Three Persons," by Cal Beisner.

m_leonora1111: My friends this is where you must LOOKED into it. end-times-prophecy.org

Campion: lThe New Catholic Encyclopedia: "The formulation ‘one God in three persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formula that has first claim to the title of the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective." – (1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.