Is the Trinity Doctrine Biblical? (Page 4) Zanjan: If you want to draw lines, then draw them the way love flows: 1. the love God has for Himself 2. the love God has for His creations 3. the love man has for God 4. the love man has for humanity God is the pre-existant Source of all things. The Revelator is a true Man. The Holy Spirit is a power. The rest of us are humans in the league of mankind.  Blackshoes: The church has explained the trinity the best they can from a Biblical stance. I don't need to give a better explanation. I agree with what has long been established! Camp and you disagree! If you disagree, then you're required to give an explanation. Not I! (Edited by Blackshoes) Blackshoes: You both gave me your opinions. Neither were reasonable or logical explanations. (Edited by Blackshoes) Blackshoes: According to you', I've already seen your inability to understand God Word in many of your post. I have also question your ability to hear God's voice', noting how often you twist scripture (Edited by Blackshoes) Zanjan: Clearly, our religious positions on such a lame interpretation is not something that's going to make a difference on our placement when we die. Differences aren't worth focussing on. Blackshoes: Well that's your opinion again  I have always referenced my post with God word Anyone is more than welcome to correct me from God word, not from their man-made dogma, doctrines, their opinions, or they're voices (Edited by Blackshoes) Zanjan: The topic asks if the trinity doctrine is Biblical - we've supplied numerous facts to show it's not. Blackshoes: That's your opinion. The Bible clearly states that Jesus is God the son. You cannot see beyond your presuppositional dogmas and doctrines. "Nearly every New Testament book makes a claim, given in a variety of ways, with different words, that Jesus is God. None of them say the exact words, “Jesus is God.” I’m not suggesting that every one of these examples proves that Jesus is God, only that taken all together, there is clearly a major thrust of New Testament teaching that intends to convey to the reader that this is so. I’ll give you a sample. I’m using the ESV (English Standard Version). Here are 10 New Testament passages that indicate that Jesus is God: 1. Matthew 1:23 Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name, Immanuel (which means, God with us). In some sense, in the coming of Jesus, God is “with” us. What does this mean? In what sense is God with us? I believe the straightforward understanding of this is that Jesus is God, so when he takes on human flesh and comes to earth God is, in fact, with us. 2. Mark 2:5-7 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” Now some of the scribes were sitting there, questioning in their hearts, “Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” To answer the scribes’ question: No one can forgive all of a person’s sins except God. The reader is left with a decision: Is Jesus blaspheming? Or is Jesus God? Surely, the writer of this Gospel, Mark, is insinuating that Jesus is, in fact, God, rather than a blasphemer! 3. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John begins his Gospel by talking about “the Word” and saying essentially three things about “the Word”: He existed “in the beginning,” which is a reference to creation (Genesis 1:1). “The Word” was with God. “The Word” was God. So, of course, this raises the question: Who could possibly be all three of these things at the same time? It’s an astonishing statement. John 1:14 answers the question: “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory.” He is clearly talking about Jesus Christ, and he is referring to the transfiguration (see Luke 9:28-36). 4. John 5:18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. Here is evidence that Jesus himself claimed to be God (or that his enemies misunderstood him). However, the apostle John does not try to correct this misunderstanding. He seems instead to affirm that this is the reason his enemies wanted to kill him (and they were right in this matter – not to kill him, but that he was claiming to be God). 5. John 20:27-29 Then [Jesus] said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me?” There are other situations like this in the New Testament, where for example, a person worships Peter (see Acts 10:25-26), and Peter tells him, “Stand up; I too am a man.” Jesus makes no such correction, but instead affirms the man’s faith (and, in essence) his worship. Clearly, in the Bible, Christian worship is reserved exclusively for God. 6. Philippians 2:5-7 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. The point of Philippians 2 is to encourage Christians to imitate the humility of Christ, who was “in the form of God” but “did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped.” In other words, although Jesus is God, he humbled himself by taking on human flesh (wow!), and we (as Christians) should humble ourselves too. 7. Colossians 1:15 [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created… Notice the apostle Paul is saying here that “by [Jesus] all things were created.” This is a pretty astonishing statement to be made about any man! Nothing like this was ever said about Moses or David or Paul. The implication (as we saw in Philippians 2) is that Jesus existed before he was born of the virgin, Mary. How can we explain this? Jesus is God. 8. Colossians 2:9 In [Christ] all the fullness of deity dwells bodily. I don’t know how else to explain this, than to say that the apostle Paul is saying that Jesus is fully divine. Jesus is “the” visible expression of God. 9. 2 Peter 1:1 To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with outs by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ. Both the apostle Paul and the apostle Peter refer to Jesus as our “God” and Savior. Pretty straightforward. 10. Hebrews 1:3 [Jesus] is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. This is not the description of any angel or any man, even a superhuman man. This is a description of God. Because Jesus is God. There are many, many more examples in the New Testament, but see that the Christian belief that Jesus is God is not a simple misinterpretation of two or three passages, nor is it based on one or two obscure passages. This theme is pervasive and emphasized in the four Gospels and in the New Testament letters. You cannot avoid it. Though you can nit and pick about what individual passages may mean, there is clearly a pattern of making claims about Jesus that could only be true of God (and are never said about anyone else in all of the Bible). He is the unique God-man." Pastor Tim (Edited by Blackshoes) Blackshoes: IYO Yet I've already stated that your opinion is your problem, You cannot understand simple scriptures (Edited by Blackshoes) Blackshoes: So you say. fact noun Save Word To save this word, you'll need to log in. Log In \ ˈfakt \ Definition of fact 1a: something that has actual existence space exploration is now a fact b: an actual occurrence prove the fact of damage 2: a piece of information presented as having objective reality These are the hard facts of the case. 3: the quality of being actual : ACTUALITY a question of fact hinges on evidence 4: a thing done: such as a: CRIME accessory after the fact barchaic : ACTION cobsolete : FEAT 5archaic : PERFORMANCE, DOING in fact : in truth He looks younger, but in fact, he is 60 years old. Zanjan: I see your problem - that definition is incomplete: A. a thing that is known or proved to be true. B. a piece of information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article. As you can see, EVIDENCE is required to create a fact. Each piece of evidence must be concrete and verified as relative; in turn, the collection fits together without gaps. Confirmation is proof of a true fact. Definition of a true fact: (Worldwide Words) "Many statements that purport to be facts turn out on closer examination not to be true, so it's useful to have a phrase like true facts that specifically says “these facts are the correct versions; all previous statements are inoperative. " You need only to look at the paparazzi scandals to get an idea of what manufacturing is. (Edited by Zanjan) Zanjan: The Biblical quotes you supplied, Shoes, are the opinions of the believer's personal experience of the Christian faith in its first century. They're not facts. They taught it as they viewed it, using their own language. We can't know their experience, we only have naratives. Quoting them is not quoting the Word of God. The Word of God is Christ - the Words He uttered is the Voice of God; only these have the supernatural creative power. What He creates is later documented as evidence. (Edited by Zanjan) Blackshoes: There you go again with mountains of semantics believing as though you're omniscient and know even more than Merriam-Webster OMG You don't listen to anything.  kai malon labe: Some folks cannot support their claims regarding something IN Scripture WITH Scripture. It will be your fault for not proving their unbiblical opinion(s) with Scripture. They foolishly think their opinion is the real gospel and is above anything found in the Bible; no amount of Scriptural proof will convince them otherwise. Such folks are SOS... Zanjan: You can't use scripture to prove scripture. Since the truth stands the test of time, it comes with plenty of observable and concrete evidence. kai malon labe: Come to think of it, I have NEVER seen the term, revelator, in Scripture so that means there NEVER was even one "revelator". It is made up! I think I like this twisting things to fit my opinion - I am feeling a tad whimsical this morning! kai malon labe: "You can't use scripture to prove scripture. "
That was not my claim! Are you trolling me? <gasp> Zanjan: You haven't read all scripture. Ancient language was missing a lot of words, especially in English. (Post deleted by kai malon labe ) | Religion Chat Room 34 People Chatting Similar Conversations |