Is the Trinity Doctrine Biblical? (Page 5)

Zanjan: Kai wrote: "Some folks cannot support their claims regarding something IN Scripture WITH Scripture."

That sentence implies that some folks can. Not true.

"no amount of Scriptural proof will convince them otherwise."

You're saying proof is found in scripture. Not true.

Scripture will guide one to truth but the evidence is required to properly understand it. Otherwise, one doesn't know a thing, they only have information.

Zanjan: Whatever claim one makes they ought to be careful their language isn't muddy; otherwise, it will beget more questions than answers.

Zanjan: The word "reveal" is in all scriptures - it's a verb. The corresponding noun is the one who reveals - the revelator. When a thing is revealed, it manifests itself - that is, it produces evidence of its reality.

Personally, I've never seen a trinity rolling past my yard or throughout my life. I've seen Catholics cross themselves but that's a four-pointer and I've not seen that ritual produce anything. Maybe it helps one to feel like they're warding off demons but throwing salt over the shoulder does the same thing.

Blackshoes:

kai malon labe: "Zanjan: Kai wrote: "Some folks cannot support their claims regarding something IN Scripture WITH Scripture."
That sentence implies that some folks can. Not true."

***The ignorance of your denial is telling! If I claim that IN Scripture it says Jesus was born of Mary, I can PROVE my claim WITH Scripture. The only thing getting muddy is your twisting due to your lack of understanding.


"no amount of Scriptural proof will convince them otherwise."
You're saying proof is found in scripture. Not true.
Scripture will guide one to truth but the evidence is required to properly understand it. Otherwise, one doesn't know a thing, they only have information."

***Sigh... One strawman argument after another..

***If you have not seen "a trinity rolling past my yard", perhaps you should look in your unnamed, unreferenced sources as it is on display in the colored photo standing right next to a revelator!

***As for your attempt to belittle Catholics, they been warding off fools for millenia: you are no different.

***On that note, I am done for now as I believe that arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pidgeon. No matter how good you are the bird is going to s**t on the board and strut around like it won anyway!

Zanjan: I've not belittled Catholics - we agree they perform an OBSERVABLE ritual and have never tried to hide that from the public. If you're ashamed of their behaviour, just spit it out.

Zanjan: By the way, the current Pope was ashamed of the behaviour of certain Catholics - he excommunicated them. I wonder where they'll go next.....to the protestants?

Zanjan: Which reminds me of something I saw in the Baptist church one Sunday. The church had sponsored two Syrian refugee families. One of them was present. When the pastor finished his sermon, the Syrian husband nodded "amen" while his wife crossed herself.

I thought that was hilarious. Still do.

m_leonora1111: Zanjan, do you believe in God?

kai malon labe: I think the finding of two people, with two varying forms of praise and worship to God, who are worshipping together peacefully, as "hilarious" pretty much shows a person's character has a lack of respect for God and his people.

A blessing extended to all folks is that God does not take advice from anyone.

A curse extended to all folks is that God will hold all accountable for every careless word that comes out of the mouth, no matter how hilarious one thinks they are.

Zanjan: Leonoara : "Zanjan, do you believe in God?"

Absolutely! I love and adore God, totally worship Him. I put Him first in all things.

Zanjan: Kai, you didn't get what was funny. If I had " a lack of respect for God and his people.", as you say, I wouldn't have been sitting in church. I didn't name the individuals.

As sponsored refugees (the congregation pays for their keep for 2 years), they were required to be mainstream Protestants and attend services. Their door wasn't open for Catholics and definitely not Mormons. Her signing herself gave her away. Busted!

Maybe she changed denominations; she didn't change habits. Lighten up, old girl. God has a sense of humour; it's one of His loveliest traits. You should worship it.

In my religion, neither God nor we curse people. It's forbidden.

Furthermore, holding someone accountable isn't a curse. It's called Justice - something all souls desire - it's the first character trait among all divine virtues.

kai malon labe: In the beginning… or darn close to it! <wink> God offers us Scriptural proof of his ability and willingness to bless or curse his creation...

Genesis chapter 3 is where we will begin and in it we find God cursing the Serpent so that it can merely hiss and spit but is incapable of harming God’s creation, if we resist it. God then placed curses on all of mankind through the very first man and woman he created, Adam and Eve. To the woman God says that he places a curse on her and her descendents during childbearing, making labor painful so as to remind her of her sin. On the man and his descendents, God curses those who labor for the necessities of this life. This is also a command for all men to work and if they do not then they do not eat.

This is the story of how we inherit Original Sin and learn that perdition is of our own making.

In Genesis 12 we find God assuring Abram that he “will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee” - Genesis 12:3

And God did! Continuing the story of Abram and Sarai in Genesis 12:17, God curses Pharaoh with unusual pains and sterility that he might easily perceive that his taking Sarai was displeasing to God. He did not intend to commit adultery indeed, but his conduct was tyrannical and oppressive to the stranger, whom God protects. Pharaoh was the usual title of the kings of Egypt, in Ezechiel's time. Couriers were often too eager to flatter the passions of the prince. The couriers were punished along with Pharaoh because they agreed with him to take Sarai against her will.

Our Lord speaking to Moses in the book of Numbers…

“Say to the children of Israel: When a man or woman shall have committed any of all the sins that men are wont to commit, and by negligence shall have transgressed the commandment of the Lord, and offended, They shall confess their sin…” - Numbers 5:6-7

Regarding cursing the sin of adultery and jealousy, God commanded Moses to say to the Israelites…

“But if thou hast gone aside from thy husband, and art defiled, and hast lain with another man: These curses shall light upon thee: The Lord make thee a curse, and an example for all among his people: may he make thy thigh to rot, and may thy belly swell and burst asunder. Let the cursed waters enter into thy belly, and may thy womb swell and thy thigh rot. And the woman shall answer, Amen, amen. And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and shall wash them out with the most bitter waters, upon which he hath heaped the curses, And he shall give them to her to drink. And when she hath drunk them, if she be defiled, and having despised her husband be guilty of adultery, the malediction shall go through her, and her belly swelling, her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse, and an example to all the people” - Numbers 5:20-24,27

Hence, through curses, God had removed the unclean from their camp.

“Behold I set forth in your sight this day a blessing and a curse: A blessing, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day: A curse, if you obey not the commandments of the Lord your God, but revolt from the way which now I shew you, and walk after strange gods which you know not.” - Deuteronomy 11:26-28

“I call heaven and earth to witness this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Choose therefore life, that both thou and thy seed may live.” - Deuteronomy 30:19

“After this he read all the words of the blessing and the cursing and all things that were written in the book of the law.” - Joshua 8:34 (He was reading the Law of Moses as written in Deuteronomy)

From left field come your uncharitable comments regarding the 83 year old pope and the Catholic faith. Such attempts to belittle millions of Catholics, who are children of God, hardly reflect Jesus humility and love for mankind. Those off the wall comments which are directed at people, known as ad hominem fallacies, are commonly injected into a conversation where someone is losing a discussion due to their lack of facts. Ad hominem fallacies attack the person and not the topic. Therefore, it is done for the soul purpose of causing emotional harm to another. That is the antithesis of a Christian who walks with God. Strawman...Poisoning the Well… the Bandwagon fallacy… all tactics of the unlearned and end up as a compliment to the Adversary.

Not being a unique situation, Jesus reminds us that there will always be folks who want to play at following God’s commandments…

"But he answering, said to them: Well did Isaias prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me." - St. Mark 7:6

I do not wish to be a Christain light therefore I will not “lighten up” on lies and innuendo. I will leave that pitiful existence to others.

“Because the Lord giveth wisdom: and out of his mouth cometh prudence and knowledge. He will keep the salvation of the righteous, and protect them that walk in simplicity. Keeping the paths of justice, and guarding the ways of saints. Then shalt thou understand justice, and judgment, and equity, and every good path. If wisdom shall enter into thy heart, and knowledge please thy soul: Counsel shall keep thee, and prudence shall preserve thee, That thou mayst be delivered from the evil way, and from the man that speaketh perverse things: Who leave the right way, and walk by dark ways: Who are glad when they have done evil, and rejoice in most wicked things: Whose ways are perverse, and their steps infamous. - Proverbs 2:6-15

As a Christian, I welcome the Truth from any source. I will continue to correct errors and false claims when I see them. My hope is that other Christians would do the same for me should I post something false. These Scripture quotes I offer above are what is known as proof of my claim regarding curses from God. Proof is what is lacking with opinions.

‘Til next time...

m_leonora1111: Zanjan, glad to know that.

Zanjan: In the ancient language of Genesis, GOD "curses" - not humans. If they try, nothing happens. Cursing isn't a magic spell, it's an expression of anger. In modern language, the term for what follows any action is "consequences". What you sow, you reap.

However, the ancients weren't developed enough to make the connection between their own behaviour and it's long-range effects, only results that were immediate. Additionally, they couldn't bear criticism very well. The shame of one was the shame of all. When bad things happened, if good people thought it was their fault, they'd believe they were defective. They'd be crippled by guilt and wouldn't progress.

God lifts them out of that quagmire by taking responsibility, Himself. We don't criticize, HE does. He states what is bad behaviour and shows what that behaviour leads to. No loving father says to their child "YOU are bad"......it's certain actions that are bad - they hurt you and others.

If one is unable to see the consequences and if they have no sense of shame, there are no lines they won't cross. God spoke to the ancients in their own language, in terms familiar to them; He doesn't speak to us like young children anymore.

We're not the judge. We shouldn't hold others in contempt, engage in fault-finding, or wish anyone ill. Besides, that just festers inside, as a consequence of not listening to God. We don't inherit the sins of others - the first person who sinned has nothing to do with us.

There's no such thing as "original sin" because God is the origin; He's the First Cause and source of everything. This is why that term isn't in scriptures.

Zanjan: Kai wrote: "From left field come your uncharitable comments regarding the 83 year old pope and the Catholic faith. "

Uncharitable? It was all over the news - he excommunicated members of the Mafia but first had given them fair warning. Naturally, they didn't stop their criminal activities. Why do you think he did a bad thing?

Seems you're jumping to conclusions fairly often. If there's something that doesn't sound right to you, just ask for more information/evidence before you judge.

m_leonora1111: I never judge, it is the Bible self that judge you when you are speaking things that are not written in the Bible.

Campion: A plain reading of the Bible is rare --- what we usually get is an interpretation of carefully selected Bible verses

Campion: frequently taken out of context

m_leonora1111: Yes my friend, this happen because people don't used Jesus only as their master. The apostles has learn from Jesus. They have wrote what we have now. I love this words of Paul. Galatians 1:1-10

Zanjan: leonora: "when you are speaking things that are not written in the Bible."

The Bible is antiquated - it didn't know me and wasn't aware of what I know. I'm not going to talk like it did. That's called "progress" ...we've learned new things and that's reflected in new language.

Paul said nothing that wasn't obvious to moderns. Yet few today are willing to sacrifice what Paul did and few are willing to recognize the same sacrifice of those in other religions. I'd say they've gone astray by looking at words instead of one's life.

Zanjan: Campion: "A plain reading of the Bible is rare"

Leonora: " people don't used Jesus only as their master"

If we put those two statements together, we could make a book with only Jesus's Words - exact quotes - nothing else. For context, it would have placement and catagory headings, ie., *Speaking to a multitude*......."the Beatitudes"


It would be a thin book but fill the requirements of a true "plain" reading.

Zanjan: Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against looking at *individual* words. We should do that more often. For example, when Jesus said "love the Lord with all your heart, mind and soul", one should ask. ' What would that look like?'

Jesus never elaborated - why did He stop short? Isn't this what you do when a young child doesn't have enough experience to handle the whole package?

It seems to me if Jesus told them (the ancients) more, that would raise more questions than answers. Rather than open a can of worms, I'm thinking He left it up to each individual to quietly meditate and understand according to their own capacity.

So, here we are today, unpacking that phrase - what does "heart" mean? What does "mind" and the "soul"? mean. What does "love" mean? For all intents and purposes, Jesus intended, in that statement, that you should do WHAT first? -> love God 100% <- First DO it, then understanding will follow.

When I speak of things that aren't in the Bible, that doesn't make them untrue. It means that things formerly hidden will eventually manifest so their reality will be plainly seen and appreciated.

The "trinity" isn't a lesson on anyone's relationship with God. That's why it's not "Biblical"; it was one man's position and should be left as such. Unlike Jesus, that man wasn't content to let people understand freely.

Figments of imagination distract and derail the heart, mind, and soul from GOD'S purpose for man.

m_leonora1111: Zanjan, Hi! The Bible says if they have to write all that Jesus has done, there isn't enough place to put all the books in the world. God is never antique. He knows the future from the beginning. The Bible teaches everything that has happened in the past is the same as today. Example: They ride horses, we ride car.

Every things that we will take from the Bible and make a story of it in our time, it have to be in harmony with the Bible, God's word.

Galatians 1:1-10. The Trinity doctrine is a false teaching, and we must show the world its weakness. That is the duty of a true Christian.

Blackshoes: Where does that say anything about the trinity

Galatians 1:1-10


1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our LORD Jesus Christ,
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ."


The Trinity is a biblical doctrine set forward by Holy scholars and those that believe what God as spoken through his prophets and apostles.
There is only one God! without the doctrine of the Trinity? There would be more than one God of which is impossible by God's word!

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

John 14:26 - But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Matthew 28:18-20 - And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

John 15:26 - But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

1 Corinthians 8:6 - But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

John 14:10 - Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Genesis 1:26 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Romans 8:26-27 - Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Ephesians 4:6 - One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Peter 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Isaiah 48:16 - Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there [am] I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 14:16 - And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;