Can Oral traditions of man supercede Gods Holy Scriptures?

butttler: dear folks--- i was asked to begin a thread like this for others to join in also....i want to get into the meat of this discussion and show fundamentally it is an impossibility for any wisdom originating in man to supercede the word of God....but i have appointment at this time ...hope to be back later

amoregrowers: The NT itself started as an oral tradition . Study the formation of the NT. So your saying your own scripture lacks wisdom.

Zanjan: True. I think he just used the wrong phrasing. Maybe he should have used superstitions, myths, old wives tales, pagan notions, or doctrines.

Zanjan: Buttler wrote: "it is an impossibility for any wisdom originating in man to supercede the word of God."

This is true. The Word of God reaches beyond recitation and the printed page. The Creative Word, which is activated during the lifetime of the Prophet on earth, is condensed knowledge - that takes time to unfold and flower. It would still operate without anyone hearing it; all of humanity would benefit from the new light but wouldn't know the source. Thus, their benefits are limited until they discover the source.

Revelation is measured out in packets; therefore, man cannot know more than what God is willing to release through His Prophets at any given stage in history. Knowledge and wisdom aren't confined to the religious field.

Proof: The ancients didn't have guns and digital communication because they were too immature. They did invent a primitive, weak battery but never developed the idea further because God didn't give them access to that knowledge.

Apokalupto: No one said there was anything inherently wrong with oral transmission, people orally transmit words and ideas every day. You’re adding to his words things he did not say as though he did, and that’s exactly where the problem arises, as the OP points out, when the oral traditions supersede the Holy Scriptures. Now scriptures are the written word and the word says explicitly in the law:

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

amoregrowers: Xp I agree

DontNeedChrist:

Nobody said wisdom originates from man. Wisdom’s origin is from G-d and G-d only. I agree 100% with butttler’s assertion. It’s man’s job to harness that G-d-inspired wisdom and apply it to his daily life and to also see to it that it adapts through the centuries to modern times.

The Oral Tradition in Judaism does not add or take away from the written, It expounds and it explains it on a profoundly more detailed level because the written is purposely sparse on details.

DontNeedChrist:

To answer the OP’s question directly, the answer is no with a capital NO. Oral traditions cannot and do not supersede scripture. They must adapt and change with the times or face irrelevancy and extinction.

Zanjan: DNC: "and to also see to it that it adapts through the centuries to modern times."

Nope, no adaptions. God never said that. God said He would send his Prophets and Revelators to make whatever adjustments are necessary. It's man's responsibility to keep up; if he doesn't, his benefits are reduced until they're lost.

Oral traditions can be about the history of the religion - that is, historic events not mentioned in Revelation. Such accounts are not to be seen as being infallible. Our lives aren't guided by the footnotes and sidebars of cultural clashes. To wit: no one has learned anything by them.

DontNeedChrist:

Wrong. Cars, computers, electricity, etc. did not exist when the Law was given. We must change and adapt our lifestyles using the Law as our guidepost to implement modern changes that are inevitable. Disagree all you want. You are incorrect on this one...as usual I might add.

Zanjan: God keeps giving new laws and abrogating old ones; each time He does that, civilization advances. Man can't advance himself because he doesnt know where he's going. He can't teach himself where the next bridge is.

DontNeedChrist:

G-d gives no new laws. Man knows exactly where he is going because he was given the instruction manual.

Zanjan: As if he followed it!

DontNeedChrist:

Observant Jews do. That’s my last comment to you.

Zanjan: God is the Judge of that.

Apokalupto: No one should be surprised then if I don't accept some tradition as the truth when it contradicts the word of God in scripture. The Bible is the ultimate measuring stick with which everything else must conform to because it is separate from the world and is holy and perfect. Oral traditions that add meaning, or take away, contradict or supersede or become more important than the Bible is to be trample under foot. We know that not one typo was acceptable when writing out a copy, how much less acceptable any oral tradition that changes, takes away or adds, contradicts or supersedes it? It is to be berried and forgotten.

amoregrowers: The Torah was given through 4 levels of understanding. Jews know this. Its called Pardes "Orchard" The key to unlocking the Secrets of the Torah is give through Oral mouth to ear, and written in a lot of books.

Solomon hinted at all the riddles. The Torah is a zip file. The Hebrew alphabet and the secret language of the branches are the key.

Moses used ,objects ,feelings, and events of this world to explain the spiritual world and its forces. Until you can get past this outer shell you will never understand Torah or any scripture for that matter.

It is a lifetime of study. Once you quit Telling G-d what his scripture means and you turn your heart to recieve HIS wisdom. Then and only then will you understand.

Louis Braille invented a system for blind people to read. Where you feel 2 dots a blind man sees an A.

Scripture is much the same. We argue over the dots and miss the A.

These oral traditions are not by any means superior to the written word. However these oral traditions help to give us insight into the true application of the scriptures life changing power.

These measures were put in place to protect scripture from being corrupted. Which imo is brilliant.

Did not Jesus have a inner group of three disciples? He spoke in parable, so you clearly can see the oral tradition played out right from Jesus himself.

So Jesus told stories that had one meaning but meant another? He even explained this in Matt 13. Now when he said this he was an observant Jew.

Mark 4:11. And He was saying to them, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables,

WOW JUST WOW Jesus taught the inner group the mysteries of the unseen spiritual world but everyone else just heard a simple parables. So Jesus himself used a method of Oral Tradition to teach his own mysteries or Torah while keeping these mysteries hidden from everyone else.

Apokalupto: Except even the rules of pardes says that no other level of interpretation can take away that first lvl, the peshat. Pardes was never instituted as part of the Torah, it's a hermeneutic principle that people came up with after the fact. Use it, but if it causes one to stray, think twice, because it was never instituted.

A tradition is something that is the transmission of customs or beliefs from generation to generation. Parables are not traditions, they are parables. Lol.

amoregrowers: Jesus was communicating a spiritual truth. Not by quoting scripture "Torah" but by telling a story orally... so the parable was a oral tradition from Jesus mouth to the listeners ear.

Apokalupto: I'll humor you.

John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 

John 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 

Jesus is the word of God, He is the source.

So what is your point?

DontNeedChrist:

Torah is the word of G-d. Not jesus. That is the point.

Apokalupto: Except you disregard Moses for Oral Traditions which are the precepts of man.

Apokalupto: So I don't think you know anything about that.

DontNeedChrist:

What you just typed makes NO sense which is an indication that it is YOU who knows nothing about that. Stick to your Greek text.

Apokalupto: Greek, Hebrew, English, Chinese, all besides the point, that you disregard the word of God for another law, a law made of men who guide one into darkness, away from the Torah and into the philosophies of men. Without the compass that is from God, you are likely to be lost in a ditch and not even know it.

DontNeedChrist:

What you say is patently false and opinion only. The Oral Torah is not the precepts of man. It was given to Moshe on harSinai 3,300 years ago. Whether you subscribe to that fact is not of my concern. Your opinions are just that. Your opinions.