Pascal's Wager is a fallacy. Change my mind. (Page 9)

Crash: Post deleted for breaking the rules of posting.

AretoNyx: Have some things to think on and add even if video is from an atheist show callers are freely speaking theists if they stay on topic and honest. I enjoy seeing views of others. I like how Matt explains such and logical fallacies.







Matt even explains such a wager on his own channel.

AretoNyx: Zeff stop trying to debate what subjectively is truth to you or copy paste from what ever denomination of religion you follow. Topic is not on this. Make another thread for it maybe.

Any how the there is a flaw in such wager but many may think this only applies to Christianity of what ever sort young earth to old earth ( in competition for members and money).
I stated some flaws earlier in thread but many do not think with logic or good reasoning on such. Many rather rely on emotional ways or have belief on such ...though that feels like getting into a different debate as well ( determinism, free will, compatiblism, and so on). So not getting to far on that.

The wager to determine what hells or heaven doing the right way of whatever religious sect / denominations...though no evidence of places from supernatural whatever subjective definition to agreed on dictionary/ encyclopedia...it is difficult to even get that burden of proof. The idea of faith or is one thing of various views besides dictionary definitions as well to bet such a wager before physical death.
Many get rich though on places of worship to selling books other than ones deemed holy ( written by a god, through gods / goddesses, and so on where wager is placed as religion).

Thanks all for having debate on such. It has been interesting.

Crash: Pascal's wager is fallacious for multiple reasons some already mentioned.

1.) It is a false dichotomy.

2.) It's predicated on there only being 1 specific "god." This is not known, nor can it be demonstrated. If it's the xian "god" your SOL anyways as this "god" requires more than just belief it exists to enter "heaven."

3.) It's predicated on beliefs being a choice. (they aren't.)

4.) It's predicated on either a "god" that CAN'T read your mind and know what you TRULY believe, or a "god" that CAN read your mind and doesn't care that you're faking belief just to attain "paradise" or avoid "hell."

5.) It's predicated on a "god(s)" existing in the first place.

edmund_carey: These points all seem to be true, but to make no difference. The point of Pascal's Wager is that it establishes the only chance you have, unless you have some reason to believe that secular humanism, or fanatical atheism, or indeed a life of crime, will usher you into eternal bliss after you die.

Pascal's ideas of transcendence may be provincial by modern standards, but neither modern standards, nor as far as anyone knows anything else, carry with them the possibility of anything other than "planting your glory in the grave and being ambitious of rotting forever".

As to the sincerity of your belief, which does seem to be called for if the belief is expected to have the desired effect, Pascal is recommending that you make your way into that with the help of realizing what it means - your only chance. Your only chance is a good reason to believe. Not a very inspiring one, but, a good one.

Crash: //The point of Pascal's Wager is that it establishes the only chance you have, unless you have some reason to believe that secular humanism, or fanatical atheism, or indeed a life of crime, will usher you into eternal bliss after you die.//

Only "chance" one has PREDICATED on the belief that a "god" exists in the first place and there aren't any other "gods."


Also, what is "fanatical atheism?" LOL

edmund_carey: Yes, but, if there is no god of any kind, then you have as much chance of happiness after death as you have if you displease the Christian one. None.

"Fanatical atheism" is just a rhetorical flourish. I meant atheism.

Crash: //Yes, but, if there is no god of any kind, then you have as much chance of happiness after death as you have if you displease the Christian one. None.//

"Happiness" after death doesn't apply on annihilation model. There is NOTHING after death. Simply non-existence. (as some believe) It's simply going to sleep and never waking up.

On the other side of the coin....if you "displease" the xian god....you have an eternity of conscious torment to look forward to. So...it's not comparable at all.

You're comparing apples and giraffes.

edmund_carey: My point was that there is only one chance FOR happiness. That seems to be the case, whatever lying and stealing will get you.

Crash: I'm not sure wwhat you mean?

coolfiree: . “for without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him” Hebrews 11:6

crystal clear, in God's Word. “very easy to understand” so case closed!

Crash: Demonstrate the bible is "gods word." Thanks. Case open.

GeraldTheGnumbnut: It's obviously god's word, it's in the bible!

Crash: LOL ..... riiiight.....how silly of me.

edmund_carey: "Not necessarily. What if the transcendent truth is reincarnation? We could get endless chances."

Chances for what? If the truth is reincarnation, then the only thing we are getting endless chances for is more chances. If that's how it is, then none of our chances will mean eternal blessedness, because nothing ever transpires other than the curse (as Buddhism sees it, to take that example) of having to face human life all over again.