Maranatha

prairwarur: Maranatha! Jesus is coming! The Rapture is real and it's about to take place!
Want to make a bet?

SassyJedi: Do you believe in Pre-trib rapture? I do.

TheDoctor394: I can't say I do. Certainly, I don't believe in any secret rapture. Jesus will come on any day, either in a month or in 2000 years or more time. He will come in all glory, for everyone to see (as 1 Thessalonians 4 states) and all who are saved will go to be with Him, while those who are not will, tragically, be condemned. The tribulation, whatever that might be, will have already happened.

Zanjan: "He will come in all glory, for everyone to see"

Here's the clincher - it doesn't say everyone will honour Him.

The Bible and other scriptures say there's no excuse for not recognizing the Ancient Beauty. Even His enemies do but they don't honour Him, they despise and reject Him. If they couldn't see, they wouldn't know what they were rejecting.

Consider Christ's swing by earth 2 thousand years ago. Those who didn't honour Him were condemned to perish. Jesus said, "Whoever is not against us is with us". If they were unable to recognize Him, how could they be held to account? The Bible says that will happen again, on a much grander scale.

Today, the world has plenty of atheists - they don't bow, believers do. The world has been full of tribulation - which tribulation suits you best? How much corruption, divisiveness, strife, contempt, arrogance, disorder and blood do you demand?

Meanwhile, God has bestowed upon humanity a historically unprecedented bounty of gifts and wealth of knowledge in a very short time; He has unveiled and brought to light everything that was formerly hidden from the eyes of men. This is a profoundly amazing time to live in, a matchless day.

What other time would you be looking for?

Zanjan: About the video - Jesus never said He would return to wake up the church. He said it would end.
That doesn't mean the church would cease to exist.....it means its dispensation would be over. There's no revival of the church - that is, no return to reign.

She's been mis-informed; there's no rapture of the church. People have made this mistake before and been seriously disappointed.

The rapture is an individual experience, occuring when that individual has realized He has returned. Why else would they be so ecstatic?? He delivers a new Revelation and dispensation for humanity - when there's darkness and so much suffering, mankind needs THIS desperately.

He'll take one working *in the field* and leave the other (worker) behind. Nothing about the church. The field is the Cause of God so, anyone of those workers in any religion of God.

The dead shall rise first - that is, the spiritually dead. NOT atheists - they don't hear His call. God is calling to everyone but if He calls you, personally, you can't say no because He's chosen you. This is the sign of His power and glory. These are the first to spread the news of His arrival.

After them, He calls the spiritually sleeping to wake up. Even in the earliest days of Christianity, there were some followers who fell asleep - all the disciples did once. They were fortunate because some other followers never woke up again. Imagine how many are sleeping now!!

prairwarur: Seems you are forgetting quite a large portion of the Scriptures. It's all written out for even morons like me to understand.
You'll read it all, meditate upon these words, internalize them and believe, or not. God will not force a thing on you and He allows us to reason with our own finite minds as much as we want. He waits for the day we finally do surrender to Him fully knowing we do not know a thing. Not really. We can only read and pray and ask for the Holy Ghost to enlighten us and He will. Amen
Don't dismiss the verses that are different. For instance, how many "comings" are described? Does He return on a white horse with all His army with Him? Revelation Or, does He stand on the Mount of Olives? Zechariah 14:4. Does "every eye" see Him, or is one taken from a bed and another left? He appears as "Lightening flashing across the sky..." but then we read that two are standing in a field and suddenly only one is left? I am not so content to say that I know one way or another without one doubt. I've prayed it through and I know God will show us many things, if we ask. He doesn't want us stumbling around on our own looking for a better way. He wants us to follow Him and trust Him completely to lead us, and He will. Amen

Zanjan: "It's all written out for even morons like me to understand."

You make a good point -> if morons can understand it, then humanity needs a more advanced Revelation for the intelligent folks, something they'd find more challenging. God didn't intend us all to stay in the same stage of development forever.

"He waits for the day we finally do surrender to Him"

Christians are supposed to have already done that. If they haven't, they're no different than the ordinary man on the street. Anyone can put on a show. God isn't interested in those who aren't interested in Him. If the Holy Ghost enlightens you, then you DO know a thing.

" how many "comings" are described?"

The whole Bible, or just the New Testament? Collectively, it describes at least Five. The New Testament has three. You need to recognize the dynamics to pick that out; Jesus touched on that but the Jews used to know it too. Prophecies are never spelled out - where would be the test?

The Bible couldn't project further into the future than that. There will always be more because God never leaves mankind alone. God never fails in leading; followers fail to follow - He has a place for each of them.

When they outgrow that place, they're ready for more responsibility so He moves them to another place, even if He has to drag them there, kicking and screaming the whole time.

Saunter58: I've an idea that seems to get into the stuff being said. Altruism, as a life goal, I think Jesus would like it. In a poetry way altruism means all the truth of the heart in action.

Saunter58: Another thing I like , I painted on a canvas , put in my kitchen , mighty hero, the Lord is with you

Saunter58: Maybe wrong time of day , typing to myself lol.

Saunter58: Jesus is my brother , my best friend.

prairwarur: Amen! Mine,too, Sis!

kai malon labe:

Zanjan: "The New Testament has three. You need to recognize the dynamics to pick that out; Jesus touched on that..."

Claiming Jesus touched on something and proving he did are necessary for those seeking the whole Truth.

Are you able to give the New Testament book(s), chapter(s) and verse(s) to substantiate this claim of three references by Jesus? If so, I am interested in learning of these. Thank you.

Zanjan: As you well know, Jesus spoke about the One to come after Him....too many citations to list here. Those seeking the "whole Truth" won't find it all in what Jesus delivered. He said "I have more to tell you but you can't bear it now".

Jesus also said He'd raise (rebuild) the temple in 3 days. These arent earth days, they're in God's time - the "Days of God" - each day is the appearance of a new Revelator, delivering a new dispensation. This coincides with the Jewish belief that THEIR Messiah will build their third temple in the Holy Land.

Count One Day as the dispensation Jesus delivered. Count Day two as Islam. Count Day three as the Baha'i Faith. In each case, they've established buildings in the Holy Land.

Refer to the Book of Revelations. However, those are old prophecies and why should I bother telling you what each means? If you're a Jew or Christian, your mind is already set that these were never fulfilled. It's a bias.

Meanwhile, these same prophecies are backed by Old Testament prophecies from Isaiah and Daniel. I led you to the table but you need to do your own homework. It's best when each individual discovers a truth for themselves - that way, they know they weren't coerced.

kai malon labe: Zanjan: " how many "comings" are described?"
"The whole Bible, or just the New Testament? Collectively, it describes at least Five. The New Testament has three. You need to recognize the dynamics to pick that out; Jesus touched on that but..."

This was not a statement about general prophecies. You made the claim regarding Jesus' returning and as yet have not offered even one scriptural reference. Instead, you draw me into your narrative and place the burden of proof on me. You have led me nowhere as you offer opinion as fact, again. I tried to get you to show more than opinion in a hope to learn something new. It is an old game played by folks who have been backed into a corner by their own words.

Give me 'the Truth, the Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth, so help me God' as opposed to partial truth or opinion. We can know the whole [revealed] Truth as given to man by God. It is a futile attempt to draw attention to my words because you cannot defend your own.

You made the claim. It is up to you to prove it. Thanks.

Zanjan: "as yet have not offered even one scriptural reference."

I'm not out to prove anything - I share, and you decide if it's worth investigating on your own. AND, yes I did give you references - if you're a practicing Christian, you know where the verses are.

God says the Revelation is its own proof - the burden is on *you* to recognize it. I already have. If something is true, then it will have fruition. When Christians say there's been no fruition, that's tantamount to saying it's not true. They've been saying "He's coming soon" for more than a thousand years.

"You have led me nowhere as you offer opinion as fact, again."

I offered what Christ said. I pointed to where you could find more about it. I showed you the material fruition. If you reject those, what else do you want? How many proofs do you need - 3, 5, 50 before you accept even one fact as proof?

Jesus described what signs to look for. When you see those signs, it's the end. Then you know He has arrived. There are no gaps between the end and the beginning.
I'll give you only one more material proof:

I don't recall any Christian asking the question, 'Why 3 Days?'. Are they not curious or have they been told something else to fill in the WHOLE mystery?

Refer to the Menorah - Moses designed it and commanded it be displayed - the number of branches signify all the Divine Lights God promised to appear until the end. Jesus said "I am the Light of the world" so, He's one of those branches on the Tree of Life.

This visual is also in the Book of Revelations. In the Day of Jesus Christ, there were three until the end. This end is not the end of the planet but of a long spiritual cycle. It would be the end of the "world" as they had known it.

Is it? I'd say so.

kai malon labe: Zanjan: " how many "comings" are described?"
"The whole Bible, or just the New Testament? Collectively, it describes at least Five. The New Testament has three. You need to recognize the dynamics to pick that out; Jesus touched on that but..."

Good thing you are not out to prove anything because once again you have no Scriptural proof of Jesus saying anything even remotely close to what you claim.

Zanjan: "AND, yes I did give you references - if you're a practicing Christian, you know where the verses are."

Slipping into defense mode with the childish ad hominem does nothing to make anyone take you seriously. That is a good thing.

You offer ideas that are not found anywhere in the 4 Gospels. I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion but caution should be observed so as folks do not confuse their opinion with another commonality amongst humans.

Thanks for at least admitting you are unable to prove your claim.

Zanjan: We'll let the **readers** decide who's trolling with dead bait here.

kai malon labe: If that floats your boat... lol

prairwarur: I think you made quite a valid point about altruism, Saunter. I like that! The Scripture this word brings to mind is when God says He will "render" unto man that which man gave out in life. We bless, He blesses, we give, He gives more. Praise God!

Zan, I think the "moron" has so much more over the one who tries to partner with God in wisdom, understanding, and what we "think" He wants.
Things just aren't as "black and white" as you think, or maybe that's the other way around, as we think? As I think? What I "think" bears very little weight. It has very little value beyond myself.

The "surrender" begins when we're brought into the Kingdom of God, but the allowing Jesus to be total Lord of our lives can take a lifetime to learn for some, and, probably most of us.
Morons easily surrender their intellect over to the Lord, and those not so wise continue to hang on to "self". This is human nature, that ole ego and id thing going on. But it's opposite of what the Scriptures say .... for instance....
We are told continuously that we must "die to self" that we must be "reborn" to see God, and we must humble ourselves to Him.
We must realize and accept that we really do not know God's thoughts and/or plans all that well, but we can continue drawing as near to Him as humanly possible until the Glorious Day He does return. The Word says only then we will be like Him, "For we shall see Him face to face." We will be changed in the "twinkling of an eye." The old passes away and the new begins. Amen

Studying is a way of life for me, as Kai and I recently talked about, but I still stay with what my Bible says first and foremost. I believe the Word first, and if other writings, or opinions do not line up with God's Word, then they are easily dismissed. No worries.
"The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom." And everyone can argue that point until Jesus comes, but to me it means the wisdom to recognize He is Creator and I have willingly surrendered my all to Him and Him alone, amen.

Shalom, Prair

Zanjan: "The "surrender" begins when we're brought into the Kingdom of God,"

I think you're conflating surrender with submission. These words aren't interchangeable. According to all the texts of all religions, you can't enter the Kingdom of God unless you've surrendered your heart to Him. Surrender is love for another over love for one's self. If you don't love God, His love can't reach you.

In essence, you must become "born again" (die to one's self) NOT to see God but to learn what God wants you to do - it's written in scripture; we know His plans. If you do it, you may well be eligible to enter heaven. This isnt our call. One waits for His call.

If God calls you to a Revelator, you'll be signing a contract called "The Covenant" - this is a life-long commitment. The basic agreement between God and man states "If you do this for ME, I will do this for you". The onus is on you to be steadfast in your service.

That's different from "submission" to the Will of God - this calls for one to put aside their ego and personal desires/wishes, to trust God's wisdom and decisions in your life, to be content with His command, resigned to His decree, and to always put God first, above all things. This is what you were talking about that can take a lifetime to master with consistency. The better you are at it, the greater will be your merit.

Christians hadn't been given that lesson yet - theirs was to learn brotherly love and teach it to the world. Whereas, submission to God was Islam's lesson. Mankind has had plenty of time to learn both of these by now.

Zanjan: Consistent study of scriptures is important to become knowledgable but active service to the Cause of God trumps that.

prairwarur: I'm talking about becoming an "empty vessel" for Him. Let Him fill it up.

Zanjan: If it's full, it must pour out onto others, yes?

Zanjan: Surrender happens in an instant; birth occurs in a few hours; growth and development are ongoing to the last breath. A child can benefit society but a youth can leave something enduring behind for mankind.

haleydanny227: i need to talk to you prair.ive came into the maranatha room several times and no one is ever there and i need you guys.the people in the jesus room are not treating me right at all including ginger and isaiah58 and i cant find anyone to talk to about it at all and i need to.please prair help me out here.