Why is brainwashing children an acceptable practice in modern society? (Page 3)

JX Amaro:
Ah yes, Atheist "Brother Number One" TiU has graced us with yet another thread that attempts to be “smart,” but is it?
A couple points:

First: I really doubt “brainwashing” is a scientific term. It seems more a pejorative term used subjectively to slander an opponent. I'm quite confident that Nikita Khrushchev thought Americans in JFK's America were “brainwashed,” as much as Kennedy felt the same about Russia. Of course, no one in Kennedy's America was tossed into a gulag for denying the “objective truth” of Marxism (or anything else). Thus, curiously, to the extent one might speak of “brainwashing,” it would seem that Atheists were the one's using state power – and brute force – to indoctrinate both children and adults – not Christians (or religious people in general). And given that millions of people were MURDERED by Atheist Marxists, and the totalitarian police states created by Atheist Marxists, it would seem that this might be a bad and ill-considered talking point for a “smart” Atheist to run on! LOL.

Second: The ever so “gifted” TiU (LOL/SMH) frequently tosses out big academic words, but it often seems he really doesn't understand the word he is using (insecure, bully-boy pseudo-intellectuals are like that, btw). Por ejemplo, in TiU's response to Shadowline, above, he says: “This is not really about rights. It is a metaethical consideration about what we ought to do.” What an odd thing to say! Does TiU really understand what “metaethical” means? I doubt it. Meta-ethics studies the premises and ideas upon which ethics are made. Meta-ethics has NOTHING to do with what we ought or ought not do. Meta-ethics precedes the ought/ought-not debate and has zero to do with making judgments. What TiU was trying to say is this: “This is not really about rights. It is a MORAL consideration about what we ought to do.” Moral philosophy is all about what we ought and ought not do. By substituting “metaethical” for “moral,” TiU was just trying to come off as “smart” and – Zonk! – he belly-flopped like a fool. LOL.

Third: There seems a very large logic flaw in TiU's basic idea. If parents don't “brainwash” their children with religious ideas, then where will children get their moral ideas from? The state? Yikes! Could it be that our super-smart and amazingly gifted TiU has not learned anything from the 20th century?!?! Viva la Revolucion and Viva the People's State!! Ah yes, in the name of “tolerance,” “human rights” and an “open society,” we must throw into a gulag – no, let's call it a “rehabilitation center,” or sumtin' lik dat – all the “enemies of the people” who dare to “brainwash” their children about that completely evil and totally irrational concept known as God!!! Ah, yeah, right – good idea. Let's do it!!!

Thus, we see, it really isn't the religious people who are trying to “brainwash” anyone, it is the Atheists who want to brainwash religious belief out of society and they want to use the State – with full police powers – to do that! Haven't we seen this movie before? Same as it ever wuz! Meet the New Atheists, same as the Old Atheists! Nutcase control freaks!!!

Ok TiU, here's a “big word” for you: “Projection.” It's like when you blame someone else for doing what you are doing. For example, claiming religious people are “brainwashing children,” so you can institute a system of Atheist social indoctrination through state violence – on children AND adults. Needless to say, TiU's “Good Samaritan” attempt to protect the children is pretty weak and see thru. LOL. Let's keep it real, people. Over and Out!

(Oh, by the way, if you are looking for a good laugh riot, just read TiU's thread entitled: “What is a God?” BlueShirt1 really kicks his ass! Totally hilarious. In fairness, BlueShirt1 really is an intelligent and smart person, not a nerdy poser like TiU. Cheers.)

shadowline: I mean you may think it is a bad idea to teach children religion, but the point is moot, or, as they say, academic. The only way we could not be teaching children religion would be by abrogating a fundamental democratic right. In other words by moving our society a little closer to totalitarianism.

I confess that, while I don't see any harm in the religion that obviously bothers TheismIsUntenable most, I see his point when I look at film footage of children bobbing and weaving in a madrassas reciting the Qur'an. That doesn't look like training them in thinking, or preparing them for life. But, it's a right. Nothing can change that.

TheismIsUntenable: @JX

Once again you seem to be too eager to denigrate me personally, rather than address the content of my posts. As a result, you prove yourself to be an utter simpleton (again).

I'll just go through your main points one-by-one:

"First: I really doubt “brainwashing” is a scientific term."

Unfortunately your doubts about reality only expose you as a complete idiot as brainwashing is indeed a scientific term.

https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/brainwashing.htm

"Meta-ethics has NOTHING to do with what we ought or ought not do."

What a bizarre thing to say. One of the main purposes of metaethics is to decide moral oughts.

This is bit like saying biology has nothing to do with evolution.

"Third: There seems a very large logic flaw in TiU's basic idea. If parents don't “brainwash” their children with religious ideas, then where will children get their moral ideas from? The state?"

If we're to translate JX's blathering, we see that at its core is the argument:

"Religion is necessary for teaching morality"

Nobody with an IQ in the triple digits believes this claim I'm afraid. He offers no support for this claim either, just expects us to take it as gospel. This is rather common for Christians as they are used to taking things as gospel without critical thought. Unfortunately, not everybody operates so naively.

But it gets worse for poor JX as he fails to supply any "logic flaw" at all in my reasoning. Just pretends one exists, and argues against a statement I never made.

JX, there is a famous quotation about remaining silent and being thought a fool than opening one's mouth and removing all doubt.

TheismIsUntenable: Thanks for admitting that you have no interest in answering the thread topic but I won't be allowing fuckery in here.

Try again by answering the OP.

GeraldtheGnome: Either when I was six or at some time after that I went to Church and to Sunday School at a Baptist Church in my then suburb here in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, yes I was a fan of The Easter Bunny, Santa Claus (which even those at the Baptist Church went along with in a very big way) and The Tooth Fairy. My Dad was and still is apathetic when it comes to religion, my Mum though is religious, not in a major way even though she clearly has some superstitious beliefs when it comes to Christianity. So it’s no surprise which one wanted me to be a Christian and which one didn’t give a stuff about it. I only went because my Mum wanted me too. I really never thought much about it even though I did have Christian beliefs.

When I turned eleven the major push for Christian beliefs within my mind were made, ironically though around the same time a religious instruction teacher taught me how to go away from Christianity. I went to The Uniting Church of Australia in my suburb at that time.

GeraldtheGnome: Anyway here is the thing, my Grandad and my Granddad on my Mum's side of the family who I miss greatly were religious, they were Protestants from Northern Ireland that lived on a dairy farm between Templepatrick and Antrim in Northern Ireland, The United Kingdom, I mean okay, I'm not religious but if there is a 'Heaven on Earth' then to me, the place that I've been to which I consider my second home is it. They were Protestants, staunch Loyalists, very staunch Monarchists (the last two things I am too) and at Christmas they would watch the Queen's message and even though most of us weren't really into religion my Grandma would say grace before Lunch happened. Anyway my Mum got her Protestant ways from them, technically my Dad is a Protestant and so am I (well at least in origin). I sometimes still refer to myself as one.

Basically my Grandparents were Protestants, brought up as such by their parents and my sister and I were brought up as Protestants too. My Grandparents went to Church, here's the funny thing, my Mum is religious but I never remember her actually going to Church, instead she'd drop myself and my sister off there as a kid. Even long after I stopped going to Church when I was 13 I still prayed at times even during quite a bit of my adult life. At 11 I was given a Bible that I still have on my birthday, a present that was from 'my Parents'. In reality it was really just from my Mum and it even has her writing only on it. Dad even then wouldn't have given me such a thing. My Mum still prays. The only time that my Mum, Dad and I ever went to Church after I was 13 (with the exclusion of weddings and funerals) was when we went to a trip to Northern Ireland and went to a Presbyterian Church. Back after my Birthday when I was 11 a religious instruction teacher was at my school and he said, "Who created God and who created who created him" or something like that. From then on I became very Agnostic and was under the impression from then on in that there possibly wasn't a god around then at all.

At 13 I was told by my Mum, as was my sister that if we didn't want to go to Church anyone more then that was okay. We both decided not to go to Church anymore. I was only going there solely because my Mum and my Mum only wanted me to go. So here's what I see as the reason that many kids are brainwashed into believing that religion should be introduced to them by their parents, it I believe is because it's most likely that their parents and the parents of their parents were religious so they think that their kids must be religious too just like them.

Zanjan: Learning about religion is a critical academic subject and shouldn't be withheld from children. They need to be able to hold their own in a conversation and not be viewed as ignorant and uncivilized. As pre-youth, they need to learn where the civil law came from and how ethics were developed. If not, they wont be able to contribute to society at any level of leadership.

Other than historical value, religion without consistent practice is pretty much useless.

To instill faith in a youngster, the parent must, themselves, be a good role model of faith and love God above all things. There's nothing worse than a poor Christian or someone of any other moral persuasion expounding on religion! So, the parent must ensure the child gets good exposure to the religious community to prepare him for disappointments.

All said and done, the child will mimic his parents and follow in their footsteps into adulthood. As an adult, he'll go his own way. Family shouldn't interfere with that.

GeraldtheGnome: Any child should learn about religion the proper way so they don't believe in what is unrealistic and impossible. There is no such thing as the pre-youth, I wish the word expounding wasn't used, that there was a space before the exclamation mark, that there were not as many commas, no one should instill anything into a chid. If someone wants to be religious then let that person be religious without being convinced to do so by parents or by anyone else. Older children should have the option to choose if they want to be religious or not, those under that age should not be religious at all. At least my sister and I were given a bit of free choice. I'm pretty sure though that no one in my family knows that I'm not religious at all, I just never let them know what is so and never lied about it to any of them because themselves and I never brought it up.

Sure my own Mum knows that I look at things by those that aren't religious, that are in opposition to religion, she though thinks that I am religious. I have been to some religious things that most people who aren't religious would not go to. The last time I did that was less than a year ago. The last time I went to a Church service that wasn't a wedding or a funeral was in June or July in 2006 in Northern Ireland, The United Kingdom. Back then I was only just religious, thought that there might possibly be no god around at all (but thought that certainly was though I was thinking that I could have been wrong at the time) and I certainly was not a Church goer. I never read any religious books back then, considered Biblical stories as fantasies and I was however into praying once in a blue Moon. Unlike my sister I did not stay resistant. I always make jokes that the Stork brought the wrong one when my sister was born. Usual sibling rivalry, we do stick up for each other at times though. We typed on here and have never said anything to each other on here.

GeraldtheGnome: It wouldn’t be a great loss if one day everyone alive of the Subspecies that we ourselves are no longer were religious. Sure there still would be other unrealistic things that people would believe in but there would be zero people brainwashed as a child then as an adult dying as a suicide bomber in the name of an imaginary god that he or she believes in. There also has been children that have been suicide bombers. Louis Armstrong with his very great song named What a wonderful World wouldn’t think that it was a wonderful world to live in if he lived for longer than he did. Nothing is due to a divine plan, not cancer, murder, torture, rape or anything else that’s awful or anything that is good or great.

TheloniousSphereMonk: I read an article a awhile back that suggested that the reason young people are leaving religion (apparently in "droves" ) is that their parents aren't instilling their beliefs in them as well as they once did. The author (who was religious) was basically blaming the exodus of young adults from the church on religious parents. Busy work schedules leading to less family time were cited as contributing factors.

Now, I suppose you could switch out the word "instill" with "indoctrinate" or "brainwash" depending on your POV

TheloniousSphereMonk: ....at least he wasn't blaming evolution or video games for the exodus.

Zanjan: I remember when they used to blame the music industry.......and grass.

GeraldtheGnome: Some errors were made on this forum recently. Kids should only later on be adults (and kids) that are only for what is realistic and for what is possible. As much as some complained about the Splendour in the grass (mud) music festival at Byron Bay were only lawn grass is (which is what I’m telling myself) down in Cockroach land/New South Wales in Australia no one should blame the music industry and lawn clippings. I could be wrong but with some of the things Zanjan comes out with I wouldn’t be surprised surprised if she wasn’t a fan of lawn clippings and that she wasn’t a Hippy in the past. Religion being something that is unrealistic is the reason why myself and others left religion.

mrsmargaret48: I guess if Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were still around you could ask them.