The Bible and Science are at odds ?

AStudent: Why do people claim this ?

Fill me in, I'm having trouble grasping the reason why people would say this

AStudent: Gee, I made this so all you clowns in the religion room could teach me some science

arias, shadow, joe in cali, and the rest of you illiterate clowns

Put your money where your mouths are

AStudent: Let's start with " if the stars fell ", one of the biggest coneheads I've encountered on this website

I recall saying in religion chat that I discovered the dimensions listed for the ark in noah's narrative in Genesis are actually a conversion of units from a measurement of the lunar distance

Stars replied by saying " " Lol, encode the lunar distance aye ?....that's some word salad........sounds like a bullshit deepity that is attempting to sound profound, but doesn't actually mean anything.......student reminds me of one of those davinci code people that thinks correlation or coincidence equals causation "

Really ?

Allow me to expose your peabrained intellect, stars, since you are too much of a coward to show up and defend the idiocy that rolls out of your mouth

First of all, conversion of units is called " dimensional analysis ", something anybody who's remotely familiar with mathematics is well familiar with

Secondly, in Babylonian astronomy, the shape of the shadow on the moon during a lunar eclipse is known as an " ark " or a " barge "

I know you're too stupid to actually learn these topics, but here's a citation anyway

Mesopotamian Mathematics 2100-1600 BC: Technical Constants in Bureaucracy and Education (Oxford Editions of Cuneiform Texts) Illustrated Edition
by Eleanor Robson, pages 45 through 58

Third, this width is known as an " eclipse magnitude ", something even a novice astronomer would be familiar with, unlike you

Fourth, this magnitude is measured approximately with one's fingers, this has been a convention of measurement for about oh........7,000 years

astudent's Picture

Since the moon subtends an angular diameter of approximately half a finger, which is half a degree, or 1800 arcseconds, one calculates the approximate angular distance by simply multiplying angular diameter of roughly 8.1 millimeters by 10, then by 380 to obtain the cubic conversion

Noah's " ark " is listed as being:

300 cubits = 24,300 millimeters
50 cubits = 4,050 millimeters
30 cubits = 2,340 millimeters

Applying L x W x D gives us 239,148.45 kilometers

That's within 0.103943 % of the modern value of 238,855 kilometers


Now, naturally, since you're such a knowitall, you never bothered to study and missed that eclipses were called " floods " in Mesopotamian literature, along with new moon every....single....month...of...the....year

Then there's your basic ignorance of the Bible

You missed that the Hebrew word for " ark " is the cognate to the Egyptian word for " finger "

Tebah VS t'bah, respectively

Since a " finger " is what was used to measure an " ark " during a " flood ", I'd have to say that you seem pretty ignorant about real history, science and math

Now if you'd like to disprove my claim that the parameters of " noah's flood " are taken from Babylonian calculations / conventions of measurement, you'll have to first start by educating yourself on Mesopotamian metrology

Start here, putz

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Mesopotamian_units_of_measurement



Now who's next ?

Guess I'll do you, shadow

AStudent: Ah yes

astudent's Picture

Shadow, you " need a citation "....because you like " real math "

OK buddy

I've been here for oh, idk, maybe 6 or 7 years, and have never seen you express anything of an interest in " real math ", let alone something like Egyptian astrometry, Babylonian analysis or Akkadian metrology, and don't think that you're actually seriously interested in any " citations " or discussing them

Your usual MO is jump up and try to offer your opinion on anything from tuna salad to black holes, then respond with " meh " or as soon as you see you're in over your head, so it's hard to take you seriously, especially since you tried belittling what I study as " numerology " ( For reals yo ? )

But here's your " citation "

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_units_of_measurement

Digit, Finger, Fingerbreadth, Tebā

" The digit or finger is an ancient and obsolete non-SI unit of measurement of length. It was originally based on the breadth of a human finger. It was a fundamental unit of length in the Ancient Egyptian, Mesopotamian, Hebrew, Ancient Greek and Roman systems of measurement "

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_(unit)

You're not familiar with Egyptian mathematics, so you probably didn't realize it's from the powers of ten, used extensively in Egyptian calculations

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_numerals


Of course, if you want something a little meatier to chew on, you could try something like

Title: Babylonian measures and the dactyli
Journal: The Observatory, Vol. 42, pages 46-51

SAO/NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1919Obs....42...46.

or perhaps the work of Otto Neugebauer would be more your speed

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_E._Neugebauer

"The History of Ancient Astronomy Problems and Methods." Journal of Near Eastern Studies 4 (1945): 1–38.
"The Early History of the Astrolabe." Isis 40 (1949): 240–56.
"The Study of Wretched Subjects." Isis 42 (1951): 111.
"On the 'Hippopede' of Eudoxus." Scripta Mathematica 19 (1953): 225–29.
"Apollonius' Planetary Theory." Communications on Pure and Applied Mathematics 8 (1955): 641–48.
"The Equivalence of Eccentric and Epicyclic Motion According to Apollonius." Scripta Mathematica 24 (1959): 5–21.
"Thabit Ben Qurra 'On the Solar Year' and 'On the Motion of the Eighth Sphere.'" Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society 106 (1962): 264–98.
"On the Allegedly Heliocentric Theory of Venus by Heraclides Ponticus." American Journal of Philology 93 (1973): 600–601.
"Notes on Autolycus." Centaurus 18 (1973): 66–69.
"Studies in Ancient Astronomy. VIII. The Water Clock in Babylonian Astronomy." Isis, Vol. 37, No. 1/2, pp. 37–43. (May, 1947). JSTOR link. Reprinted in Neugebauer (1983), pp. 239–245 (*).
(with Richard A. Parker) "Egyptian Astronomical Texts: III. Decans, Planets, Constellations, and Zodiacs." (Brown University Press, 1969)

(with Abraham Sachs, eds.). Mathematical Cuneiform Texts. American Oriental Series, vol. 29. New Haven: American Oriental Society, 1945.
The Exact Sciences in Antiquity. Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1952; 2nd edition, Brown University Press, 1957; reprint, New York: Dover publications, 1969. ISBN 978-0-486-22332-2
Astronomical Cuneiform Texts. 3 volumes. London:1956; 2nd edition, New York: Springer, 1983. (Commonly abbreviated as ACT)
The Astronomical Tables of al-Khwarizmi. Historiskfilosofiske Skrifter undgivet af Det Kongelige Danske Videnskabernes Selskab, Bind 4, nr. 2. Copenhagen: Ejnar Munksgaard, 1962.
Ethiopic Astronomy and Computus. Vienna: Verlag der Österreichischen Akademie der Wissenschaften, 1979.
A History of Ancient Mathematical Astronomy, 3 vols. Berlin: Springer, 1975. (Commonly abbreviated as HAMA.)
Astronomy and History: Selected Essays. New York: Springer, 1983.
(with Noel Swerdlow) Mathematical Astronomy in Copernicus’ De Revolutionibus. New York: Springer, 1984. ISBN 978-1-4613-8262-1


Naturally, that's only one author's work

I could probably cite hundreds of books and articles on this exact topic, from numerous well respected academics like Jens Hoyrup or Joran Friberg, since you like " real math "

AStudent: Who else ?

Zanjan: Interesting concept. However, when one says "Ancient", how ancient is that?

Does it make sense that the way something is measured would be exactly by the same means thousands of years apart and in different countries? Does everyone use metric? Does it make sense that Noah built a "boat" that was a number of miles/kilometers high?

This still leaves us to explain the death of humanity by the moon. Science needs to translate into something that's plausible and so does religion.

For example, Science has proven that there was massive flooding with the melting of the great Ice Sheets, which caused sea levels to rise 300 feet. The most sudden melt occurred approx 12,000 years ago and Science knows why it occured. Furthermore, there is the discovery of ancient cities and villages which used to be along coastlines, still submerged to this day.

Glacial ice continues to melt and sea levels continue to rise. The climactic changes are already devastating with people dying because of them; but, if this continues, results will be disastrous on a global scale - that is, inland as well.

Science and religion can agree on the flood but the "deluge" requires a resolution.

There are instances in the texts where the moon turns red, is cleft in two, or doesn't give her light. We could explain that scientifically but not in terms of a one time historical event.

AStudent: yup, the meter was known in the antiquities

Zanjan: So, the numbers are intriguing. We can correlate them to geographical events.

Lake Agassiz (in Canada) was the biggest lake in the world at one time. It was fed by glacial meltwater and was flooded 12,875 years before present. It's dimensions were:
Max. length 475 miles (764 km)
Max. width 296 miles (476 km)
Surface area 300,000 km2 (115,831 sq mi)

Its final drainage occurred suddenly when a glacial block melted 8,200 years ago. The cold, fresh waters rushed in tons out to sea, disrupting the warm ocean currents, killing land and marine life in great swaths, and throwing the weather off all over the planet. It triggered another cold spell so food sources disappeared. The move from hunter-gatherer into agricultural societies immediately followed.

Science and religion can PREDICT that sudden massive climate change will certainly change the world of mankind. Would God or the earth's orbit around the sun have anything to do with that? Yes, both.

The earth changes both its shape of orbit (from more circular to more elliptical) over long periods of time; also, it moves its axis by a few degrees as it does so, then moves the axis back. This change is caused by redistribution of water around the planet. Has the earth done this lately? Yes, only a couple years ago and hasn't returned.

Was anyone warned of this? Yep, both science and religion gave warnings.

AStudent: Yeah, that seems like a good argument on the surface, but it's BS

Zanjan: I think I scared somebody.