Theodicies. Have the Christians any answers to the problem of evil? (Page 6)

harpalycus47: Then show me how the conclusion is faulty.

zeffur: re: "harpalycus47: Exactly what kind of God do you worship???"

There is only 1 true God that created the universe/cosmos & everything in it--including all life.
That God is the God of The Bible. There is no other true God or gods or demi-gods.

harpalycus47: Hi Belgian, the pleasure is all mine.

harpalycus47: A God who makes perfect things that fail.

harpalycus47: A God who creates the Black death and tsunamis.

harpalycus47: A God who condemns others for the fault of two.

harpalycus47: A God who orders infinite torture for a finite fault then calls himself just

zeffur: re: "harpalycus47: How can they fail if they are perfect?"

I already explained that to you. Being created perfect & having free will gives them the ability to decide for themself to obey or disobey. Once they disobeyed, THEY MADE THEMSELVES IMPERFECT!

re: "The only possible answer is that God made them imperfect."

Wrong. That is faulty logic.

re: "Or is God incapable of making something perfect? Which is it?"

God made them perfect & THEY made themselves imperfect via their free will decision & action to disobey God. This isn't rocket science. It's basic, simple logic. Stop acting like you don't understand it.

harpalycus47: And how, oh great logician, could they have MADE themselves imperfect by being imperfect and so making the wrong decision. I think we have a bit of a viciously circular argument here.

harpalycus47: You have said it before, but you haven't explained it - it defies explanation.

BelgianStrider: Just a small question to the theist believing in an intervening omnibenevolent deity.

How can they explain the existence of the "Braconids"?

If you don't know what nice little animal it is; here a video

harpalycus47: Darwin's example was the ichneumon fly.

harpalycus47: How's you Belgian?

zeffur: re: "harpalycus47: A God who makes perfect things that fail."

That's due to THEIR free will decisions & actions. God gave them that ability.

re: "harpalycus47: A God who creates the Black death and tsunamis."

That's all part of the consequences of having disobeyed God--they lost the utopia that God initially created for mankind.

re: "harpalycus47: A God who condemns others for the fault of two."

Another consequence of their disobedience is that they & all of their offspring will die due to their disobedience. Their own Spiritual salvation rests in their free will conduct (words & deeds).

re: "harpalycus47: A God who orders infinite torture for a finite fault then calls himself just"

It is just to forsake those who forsake God.

You seek to blame God for the disobedience of humanity. That is faulty thinking. Mankind's decisions & actions destroyed their utopia. God loved them still & established another method of salvation & reconciliation for them in His kingdom via Jesus' sacrifice, but some of them irrationally forsake that option & foolishly try to blame God. Worse still are those dishonest & irresponsible types who think they should be able to reject God & still gain salvation--which is completely asinine thinking.

harpalycus47: A decision by a perfect being to fail means that that being can't be perfect. They made an imperfect choice.

harpalycus47: I didn't destroy Utopia. Did you?

zeffur: re: "harpalycus47: And how, oh great logician, could they have MADE themselves imperfect by being imperfect and so making the wrong decision. I think we have a bit of a viciously circular argument here."

How do you make a perfect pair of pants imperfect? You soil or tear them. How is it that you can't understand something so basic??

harpalycus47: A perfect being can't fail, by definition. So, it must have been God's decision to make them imperfect so they would fail

harpalycus47: Not if they were a perfect pair of pants that were perfectly stain resistant and perfectly impervious to damage.

harpalycus47: How is it that you don't understand basic logic.

zeffur: re: "harpalycus47: A decision by a perfect being to fail means that that being can't be perfect. They made an imperfect choice."

Wrong. I've already made it perfectly clear, that being made perfect & having free will doesn't mean a being will remain perfect--some of them can & do disobey & that makes them imperfect--just like destroying a perfect pair of pants becomes imperfect when you destroy them.

harpalycus47: Being perfect does mean that they remain perfect.
'Here is an absolutely perfect machine. Nothing can ever go wrong with this machine as it is perfect. Oh, by the way, it usually breaks down after a couple of days.'

harpalycus47: You can only destroy a perfect pair of pants if that is part of their description. i.e. they are perfectly designed to be perfectly resistant to damage and wear until the end of the week.

BelgianStrider: I am ok Harp, How about you?

Well there are more than one example of those lovely "omnibenevolent" creatures amongst the insects !!!

The question is : how does that fit in the world of an intervening omnibenevolent all-loving perfect deity?

harpalycus47: Indeed. The greatest argument against a loving God is animal suffering.