Theodicies. Have the Christians any answers to the problem of evil? (Page 9)

zeffur: Eden was a utopia until Adam & Eve disobeyed/sinned. Then they were booted out of the utopia.

You wrongly think Eden wasn't perfect because the evil one was present there. That is another one of your irrational mental blocks that is not valid/true. God tests all beings in one way or another--even Jesus was tested during his human development & after He was blessed by God after his baptism by John in the river Jordan.

harpalycus47: Come on, Zeffur, we have someone creating unworthy things, mysterious corruption from who knows where and a perfect Eve making an imperfect choice in disobeying God. What are the answers?

zeffur: re: "harpalycus47: No, the best question is why should any perfect being disobey God? You said that Eve preferred power to obedience. Was that perfect reasoning, Zeffur?"

No one told you that Adam & Eve couldn't have their own will... In fact, they have free will--which allows them to do whatever they want to do--with the exception of disobeying God unless they make that decisions & commit that sin--which they both did.

harpalycus47: Why does God need to test people? Are you telling me he doesn't know the answers?????
And by the way, show me where I said anything that would allow you to say,
You wrongly think Eden wasn't perfect because the evil one was present there.
Because I don't think that.

harpalycus47: You see, you've said it yourself -they have free will--which allows them to do whatever they want to do--with the exception of disobeying God unless they make that decisions & commit that sin.
If they were perfect how could they commit that great sin against God?

zeffur: For the official record. He already knows which of them will succeed & which will fail. The record is for proof on judgment day for those that fail.

harpalycus47: Proof for whom? Is OfGod going to investigate his decisions and issue a full report to the appropriate authorities in due course. Is God bound by directives and red tape? I'm not surprised.

zeffur: re: "If they were perfect how could they commit that great sin against God?"

You really have an irrational mental block, don't you??
Created perfect with free will does not mean that they cannot become imperfect. How many times must I repeat that for you to comprehend it?? Just like a new pair of pants that remain perfect until someone uses them or destroys them in one way or another, beings can become imperfect by disobeying/sinning against God or they can remain perfect by obeying God. This is not something difficult to understand. Why are you fighting something so simple & obvious??

zeffur: re: "Proof for whom? Is OfGod going to investigate his decisions and issue a full report to the appropriate authorities in due course. Is God bound by directives and red tape? I'm not surprised."

Proof for the forsaken sinners who have not had their sins washed away by Jesus' atoning sacrifice. You know there will be beings on judgment day who will be lying their asses off in vain... Their record will be flashed before their eyes. There will be no avoiding accountability...

harpalycus47: You've no need to repeat it at all. Because it's just nonsense. You say they become imperfect by making the wrong choice. It is wrong to choose to disobey God. It's quite simple. If they chose the wrong and evil thing, then they can't have been perfect. If Eve chose power over obedience, then that is wrong. She was wrong to make the choice. She was imperfect . Before she made the choice! Or she wouldn't have wanted power.

BelgianStrider: 7 pages of one rambling his total illogic indoctrinated mantras !!!

zeffur: Your OPINION is not a valid refutation.

re: "If they chose the wrong and evil thing, then they can't have been perfect."

Wrong. They are perfect up to the moment that they commit the sin. How can you not comprehend the obvious??

harpalycus47: It is not simple and obvious. It is just plain silly. You just refuse to accept the blindingly obvious. As in the unworthy people God made. Or, if he didn't, who did?

harpalycus47: Just desperately repeating yourself, and denying the obvious do not an argument make.

zeffur: Your OPINION is not a valid refutation.

re: "If they chose the wrong and evil thing, then they can't have been perfect."

Wrong. They are perfect up to the moment that they commit the sin. How can you not comprehend the obvious??

harpalycus47: OMG Then why did they commit the sin. Why did Eve choose power when it was the wrong decision. Give me one reason. Any reason why she would do it.

harpalycus47: They are perfect until they are imperfect doesn';t cut it. Because they are imperfect. You have just said so. They are perfect until they are imperfect.

zeffur: Why do smokers smoke? Why does satan & atheists hate God/religion? Why does anyone sin? Because they have free will to decide whether they will obey or disobey/sin.
And for whatever they want that causes them to disobey when they actually do so.
For Eve it was she wanted to be more like God. For satan, he was full of arrogance to the point of delusion & hatred for God (which he isn't & can never be--so, he chose to be the master deceiver instead).

harpalycus47: It's a logical argument Zeffur.
Premise
God created perfect beings.
Premise
Perfect beings cannot make wrong decisions
Conclusion.Eve could not have made the wrong decision.
PS a supplementary premise is that a wrong decision is imperfect.
Which of those do you specifically challenge?

BelgianStrider: who said that every atheist hate god or any religion ???

I would say the opposite: most religious indoctrinated zealot hates any other religion except his !!!!

harpalycus47: Exactly Zeffur. Now think. Use that brain that God so kindly gave you.
God made Satan. So where did Satan's arrogance and hatred for God come from?

zeffur: re: "Perfect beings cannot make wrong decisions" is a false premise--which is why your logic is illogical. All beings have free will & they CAN be disobedient/sin.

harpalycus47: Is a wrong decision perfect then, Zeffur?
Yes or no.

harpalycus47: Where did Satan's arrogance come from? Did God make him arrogant?

zeffur: re: "PS a supplementary premise is that a wrong decision is imperfect."

Actually, disobedience is sin & it causes imperfection & separation from God's perfection.