FAITH (Page 3)

m_leonora1111
m_leonora1111: Zeffur: that video is man teachings.
Do you have read Ezekiel 37:1-14?

I believe what the Bible teach.
Answer my questions: Are Moses and Elijah Spirit in heaven, or they have a body in heaven. And also Jesus Christ?

I'm not an English man, but I can understand exactly what is written I English in the Bible.

Nowhere in the Bible we can read that the spirit of anyone that has died is in heaven. Even if you have read it from the Bible, you are keeping following man's teachings.

Go read in your Bible Genesis 2:7, and read in all the other Bible's that you can find, when God created Adam from the dust, and then He said "spirit of Adam" enter in this body!!🤔🤔
(Edited by m_leonora1111)
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Blackshoes
Blackshoes: I answered your question about Heaven and Hell. As far as whether you have a spirit and a soul, Yes we all have the spirit of of life that breathes into Adam by God from the very beginning.

Genesis 2:7
“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”

John 6:63

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”



The Holy Spirit only resides within Believers that have asked for his presence

We are all born with a soul that is part of human existence just as it is with the spirit of life.
Yes, they are separate and yet somewhat the same.

The Holy Spirit is a gift from God and is power and love that leads us and guides Christians and will one day raise our souls to Heaven.

1 John 4:4

“Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.”


Our bodies stay here Only Jesus Ejiah, and Enoch were sent to heaven with their Bodies. Like Jesus, Ejiah and Enoch must return to DIE. They will most likely be the two witnesses sent from High: that will bring fire from the sky during the tribulation and will be killed for their testimony


Hebrews 9:27
“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”


(Edited by Blackshoes)
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zeffur
zeffur: @ m_leonora1111:

I'm not going to argue with you. Both BS & myself have provided more than enough scriptural verses to support the reasons that we think/believe as we do.

From what I see of your belief, I think you are making erroneous assumptions that you cannot defend. That is my final word on this matter.
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m_leonora1111
m_leonora1111: Blackshoes: So if the word said "BECAME", in Genesis 7:2, means exactly what I have write about this issue. Body/Soul = the same exact thing. So when the breath "OF LIFE" ( SPIRIT) that belongs to God, depart of us. Then we return back to dust.

Put this in Ezekiel 37:1-14. And remember that the Bible interpreted itself.
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m_leonora1111
m_leonora1111: You can have your final words. But everybody can see that you cannot answered my questions.

Do Elijah and Moses that are now in heaven, have a flesh body with bones, or are they spirit?

Jesus Christ is now in heaven, do He have a carnal body, or He is a Spirit?

People are waiting for your answer!!🤔🤔
(Edited by m_leonora1111)
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Blackshoes
Blackshoes: Just because you reject or don't understand God's word on the matter doesn't mean that I didn't answer your question
The Bible is written so that many can understand the truth, not just those that believe themself better. If you look at Luke .16: 19-31. It is crystal clear that their spirit and soul are in heaven or hell, They feel joy and pain, therefore their # flesh remains here on earth. However, it matters little, considering as far as their concerned they still retain their human form.



* Note, that the rich man SAW Abraham and Lazarus in his bosom and the rich man was in torment

# that the rich man was buried ( his flesh remained on earth)

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was # buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and * seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for* I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Note also, IMO Jesus was speaking from an actual event, and that is why he left the rich man's name out ', IMO it's very likely that the Pharisees may have known the rich man; it's not likely they would have even bothered to no the name of the beggar ?
(Edited by Blackshoes)
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zeffur
zeffur: @BS: m_leonora1111 just wants to argue what he cannot prove.

Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind & was likely killed in the process or later died when in heaven with God (not that God couldn't keep his physical body alive in heaven like He kept Adam & Eve alive in Eden with the tree of Life or some other way that we are unaware of). Moses died on earth & was buried on earth. Moses & Elijah were both present with Jesus in the transfiguration on the Mt. of olives. To be there, they very likely had to both be in Spiritual form--even though Jesus was still in His physical form & transfigured during the event for a short time. All people have a physical body that will die. Those that are & will be saved will all have a new Spiritual body that will be incorruptible.
(Edited by zeffur)
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m_leonora1111
m_leonora1111: Blackshoes: Did Jesus says that the "spirit" of the rich man was in hell, and the "spirit" of Lazarus was in heaven?

Or it says: Both die and found themselves, one in heaven and the other in hell. Why should Abraham have to carry a spirit that can float?

Second: Jesus was telling a parable what will happen at the end of the world.

I know it is difficult to just believe what is written in the Bible, after a completely false trinity teaching.

I think you didn't read Ezekiel 37:1-14. Otherwise you can see how God will wake up people back from the dead, when Jesus return to earth back.

Another passage from the Bible that you didn't see.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.
Did the Bible speak about spirit in heaven or hell after dead? No!

What about 1 Corinthians 15 completely!! Specially verse 35. And verse 50-54. Here we can see the two different body. Now we are living in a mortal body (sin) and if Jesus return now, our body transformed in immortal (spiritual).

Now, true Christians are spiritual Israel, and Christians that are thinking that they have an own spirit/soul being in their body, cannot be spiritual. Because they have a god holy spirit in their body. So they have three spirit floating in their body.

But we that are following the Bible exactly how it is written, have only one spirit in our body. And that is the Spirit OF God the Father, that are also OF Jesus Christ, and from Jesus Christ to us. Us is those that believe that we have the breath of life of God (spirit). And when we die, it goes back from where it comes.

Go read Ezekiel 37:1-14. This time just stand still, and ask God to open your mind and eyes.

So again here Holy Spirit means, breath/mind of God. It is God's nature. God's power.
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m_leonora1111
m_leonora1111: Zeffur: Where in the Bible can I read that Elijah was killed? They have go look for him, but not have found him. Moses was the same. Enoch also didn't die.

Are you saying that God are killing people in heaven?

So, you didn't answer my questions. Are they spirit or flash and bones in heaven? Are Jesus Christ now flash and bones, or spirit?
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zeffur
zeffur: re: "m_leonora1111: Zeffur: Where in the Bible can I read that Elijah was killed? They have go look for him, but not have found him. Moses was the same. Enoch also didn't die."

Wrong--Moses did in fact die. You apparently do NOT know your Bible very well. Here are the verses that state it occurred: "Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord. And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab..." Deu 34:5-6 KJV

I also never stated that Elijah was killed for certain--just that that is likely what happened. I doubt any human body could withstand the forces of a whirlwind & survive--even though his body was not found by those who searched for it (people are notoriously imperfect in the things that they do). The Bible doesn't provide us with every answer to every question, obviously, so we have to make assumptions about some things. Did God take Enoch & Elijah--yes, it is in The Bible. Are they still alive in their physical mortal bodies in Heaven?? No one knows for certain. What we know is that all men are born of sin & all men will die--except Jesus, who was perfect & a hybrid of God & man--but even Jesus died (i.e. was murdered).

The fact is that spirits can enter into & leave bodies. How do you think evil spirits possess people? How do you think people have gone to heaven & to hell during NDEs & OoB experiences & returned to report their experiences??

Moses died & yet he was present at the transfiguration with Jesus & Elijah. Was Moses body resurrected?? There is no evidence in The Bible that shows that specifically--it shows that Moses died. Remember, Jesus had not been resurrected yet, so Moses wouldn't have been resurrected at the transfiguration yet either, if he was resurrected after Jesus was resurrected--which occurred after the transfiguration event.

There are 2 forms of life. One is the breath of life--which is the soul & it is different than the life that is in the Spirit. It dies when a person dies. It can also be restored to a physical body--just as Jesus did for Lazarus (remember, Jesus is the LIFE & the RESURRECTION). There is also the life of the spirit, which can be resurrected & be saved for eternal life with God in heaven & what is transferred into the new incorruptible body that all saved people will receive. There are 3 parts to a human being: body, soul, & spirit. That is a fact that you appear to refuse to accept. You stating that it isn't so, doesn't make you right--it makes you ignorant or dishonest.

Moses & Elijah were very likely both spiritual bodies at the transfiguration--but of course we do not know that for certain, as we do not have specific Biblical text to provide us with that level of detail.

You ASSUME that Enoch & Elijah were taken to heaven in their physical forms, because their bodies were never found, but that doesn't mean they have remained alive in their physical bodies for eternity. All men will die as they are imperfect--unless God provided them with a tree or river of life or something else that we are unaware of & that is not specifically provided to us in The Bible.

Your assumptions are NOT verifiable & you aren't RIGHT just because you have your opinions on such matters. Unless you can provide compelling/convincing Biblical evidence & sound reasoning for your opinions, you cannot be certain that your opinions are true. We don't have sufficient details to be 100% certain about some things--that's just a fact--like it or not!

re: "Are they spirit or flash and bones in heaven? Are Jesus Christ now flash and bones, or spirit?"

Jesus was resurrected in His physical body & He is in heaven in His physical body, but, the heavenly body is not the same as an earthly body. Read 1 Cor 15 & you will see that the earthly body has to perish for the heavenly body to be created. My assumption is that Enoch's, Elijah's, & certainly Jesus' bodies are now heavenly bodies. Some would argue with me about that though because they think that the 2 witnesses in Rev 11 will be Enoch & Elijah. But, if you look at what their God-provided powers will be at that time (assuming it will be them), you will have to conclude that a human body could not do such things & it is likely that they would have to be heavenly bodies--but, once again, no one knows that for certain (including YOU), obviously.
(Edited by zeffur)
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m_leonora1111
m_leonora1111: Zeffur: Bible said that God self has buried Moses. Because they didn't find Moses.

About nobody knows, you are completely wrong. Because I know. Go read Ezekiel 37:1-14!! All the chapters and verses that I have given you to understand that the spirit inside our body that are keeping us alive, is the breath of God. Not another being trapped in our body.

I think that I am going to write the completely Biblical truth about: Spirit, Soul and body.

I hope that you are going to read it with only your Bible.
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zeffur
zeffur: Pay attention "...Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord..." & "And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab..."

Notice the phrase "according to the Word of the Lord"?? That means that The Lord informed whoever wrote that passage in The Bible. It also clearly states that God buried Moses in a valley in the land of Moab. Are you calling The Lord a liar, or do you just think it is ok to ignore The Bible text to suit your attempts to try to corrupt the beliefs of others?? God would know whether or not He buried Moses in the land of Moab. It doesn't matter what that location is--we can implicitly trust The Lord & The Bible. Therefore, you are 'completely' 'wrong', as I stated in my last post.

re: "Go read Ezekiel 37:1-14"

I have already read it. You are still WRONG & sadly you don't comprehend that fact or you are a liar.

Stop addressing me. Reread everything that I posted to properly understand or ignore it--the choice is yours to make. I'm done schooling you. You are obviously confused or dishonest.
(Edited by zeffur)
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m_leonora1111
m_leonora1111: You can start reading the Biblical truth about Spirit, Soul and Body!!
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Blackshoes
Blackshoes:

RE :Or it says: Both die and found themselves, one in heaven and the other in hell. Why should Abraham have to carry a spirit that can float?


Second: Jesus was telling a parable what will happen at the end of the world.


Your addition, conjecture, and assumption are not what the Bible states.

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and * seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
God's word is true and sound, only those that don't understand or don't have the Holy spirit are easily confused and deceived.

Where in Jesus's words is floating mentioned? Where is the end of the world mentioned?

The very reason for a parable is to teach and promote understanding

par·a·ble
[ˈperəb(ə)l]
NOUN
parable (noun) · parables (plural noun)
a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual* lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels:
"the parable of the blind men and the elephant" · "a modern-day parable"
synonyms:
allegory · moral story · moral tale · fable · lesson · exemplum · Haggadah · apologue







* les·son
[ˈles(ə)n]
NOUN
an amount of teaching given at one time; a period of learning or teaching:
"an advanced lesson in math" · [more]
synonyms:
class · session · seminar · tutorial · lecture · period · [more]
a passage from the Bible read aloud during a church service, especially either of two readings at morning and evening prayer in the Anglican Church:
"he went up to read the first lesson"
synonyms:
Bible reading · Bible passage · scripture · text · reading
VERB
archaic
instruct or teach (someone):
"Metaneone had beforehand lessoned him what he should say"






(Edited by Blackshoes)
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m_leonora1111
m_leonora1111: Where in the Bible I can read the spirit of the rich man is torture in hell? The Bible says "BOTH". that means flash and bones.
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Blackshoes
Blackshoes: Where does the Bible say Both ??

Both died! Both were buried! the beggar went to Abrahams's bosom, and the other went to HELL.

Their flesh remains in the ground to this day! ( absent of the flesh )Their body, the spirit, and the soul go to their reward. They both have a body without their flesh, in either Heaven or Hell !

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was # buried;

Your assumptions and opinions are not Biblical. They don't even make any sense !
(Edited by Blackshoes)
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m_leonora1111
m_leonora1111: So both die. Both find themselves with flesh and bones where they belong.

Take a look in Matthew 12:43-45. Let me know how many different spirit Jesus are saying is in this man body? Also read Luke 11:24-25.

You must also understand that this statement is not what really has happened. It was a parable that will happen when Jesus return now. Read it completely, so you can see that the rich man is begging Jesus to send Lazarus back to the earth, from that they find themselves in hell. And what is the answer? Abraham said, they have moses and the prophets.
Was Moses alive somewhere on earth in the time of Jesus? No!! So stop taking verses here and there, without knowing the story!!
(Edited by m_leonora1111)
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zeffur
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Blackshoes
Blackshoes: RE: You must also understand that this statement is not what really has happened.

You know that? You assume it didn't happen.
As far as we know? Jesus was taking that parable from a real event?
Jesus knows all things! Past, present, and future


RE: Abraham said, They have Moses and the prophets.
RE: Was Moses alive somewhere on earth in the time of Jesus?

You've added a false assumption! Abraham was stating that * ( If they hear not Moses and the prophets), " to listen to ". In other words, they have God's word! The rich man and his family knew of Abraham ( FATHER Abraham) Why are you having so much trouble understanding simple linguistics.

* Where does it say that they HAVE Moses and the prophets ??


You're not reading nor understanding the scriptures as written. You're reading your own assumptions, opinions, and presuppositional views into them


31 And he said unto him, * If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
(Edited by Blackshoes)
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zeffur
zeffur: Abraham & Moses were both dead. "Moses & the Prophets" relates to the scriptures. If they won't listen to the teaching of the scriptures written by Moses & the prophets, then they will not be persuaded by anyone who was raised from the dead. How can anyone not understand that???
(Edited by zeffur)
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zeffur
zeffur: "If God is sovereign, is He responsible for evil?

No. Scripture says that when God finished His creation, He saw everything and declared it "very good" (Genesis 1:31). Many Scriptures affirm that God is not the author of evil: "God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone" (James 1:13). "God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all" (1 John 1:5). "God is not the author of confusion" (1 Corinthians 14:33)—and if that is true, He cannot in any way be the author of evil.

Occasionally someone will quote Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) and claim it proves God made evil as a part of His creation: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things" (emphasis added).

But the New American Standard Bible gives the sense of Isaiah 45:6-7 more clearly: "There is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, the One forming light and creating darkness, causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these." In other words, God devises calamity as a judgment for the wicked. But in no sense is He the author of evil.

Evil originates not from God but from the fallen creature. I agree with John Calvin, who wrote,

. . . the Lord had declared that "everything that he had made . . . was exceedingly good" [Genesis 1:31]. Whence, then comes this wickedness to man, that he should fall away from his God? Lest we should think it comes from creation, God had put His stamp of approval on what had come forth from himself. By his own evil intention, then, man corrupted the pure nature he had received from the Lord; and by his fall drew all his posterity with him into destruction. Accordingly, we should contemplate the evident cause of condemnation in the corrupt nature of humanity-which is closer to us-rather than seek a hidden and utterly incomprehensible cause in God's predestination. [Institutes, 3:23:8]

It is helpful, I think, to understand that sin is not itself a thing created. Sin is neither substance, being, spirit, nor matter. So it is technically not proper to think of sin as something that was created. Sin is simply a lack of moral perfection in a fallen creature. Fallen creatures themselves bear full responsibility for their sin. And all evil in the universe emanates from the sins of fallen creatures.

For example, Romans 5:12 says that death entered the world because of sin. Death, pain, disease, stress, exhaustion, calamity, and all the bad things that happen came as a result of the entrance of sin into the universe (see Genesis 3:14-24). All those evil effects of sin continue to work in the world and will be with us as long as sin is.

First Corinthians 10:13 promises us that God will not permit a greater trial than we can bear. And James 1:13 tells us that God will not tempt us with evil.

God is certainly sovereign over evil. There's a sense in which it is proper even to say that evil is part of His eternal decree. He planned for it. It did not take Him by surprise. It is not an interruption of His eternal plan. He declared the end from the beginning, and He is still working all things for His good pleasure (Isaiah 46:9-10).

But God's role with regard to evil is never as its author. He simply permits evil agents to work, then overrules evil for His own wise and holy ends. Ultimately He is able to make all things-including all the fruits of all the evil of all time-work together for a greater good (Romans 8:28)."

src: https://www.gty.org/library/articles/A189/is-god-responsible-for-evil


"Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” How does Isaiah 45:7 agree with the view that God did not create evil? There are two key facts that need to be considered. (1) The word translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery.” Notice how the other major English Bible translations render the word: “disaster” (NIV, HCSB), “calamity” (NKJV, NAS, ESV), and “woe” (NRSV). The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil, and often does have this meaning in the Hebrew Scriptures. However, due to the diversity of possible definitions, it is unwise to assume that “I create evil” in Isaiah 45:7 refers to God bringing moral evil into existence.

(2) The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him."

src: https://www.gotquestions.org/Isaiah-45-7.html
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m_leonora1111
m_leonora1111: I didn't say that God created evil.
I say that God say that it is NOT GOOD that the man to be alone. That's why God has made the woman from a bone of the man.

Begin to read my page about body, soul, and spirit!!
(Edited by m_leonora1111)
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zeffur
zeffur: Every post is NOT about YOU.
(Edited by zeffur)
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m_leonora1111
m_leonora1111: You are right, it is about Jesus Christ Himself in me through His Holy Spirit.

But trinitarians don't have the Holy Spirit OF Jesus Christ and the Father.

They have a strange god holy spirit in their bodies, that isn't Jesus Christ neither His Father.

That is what their teachings teaches!! 🤔🤔
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zeffur
zeffur: You are silly. The Holy Spirit (Ghost--English translation) does in fact exist.

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." Joh 14:26 KJV

Hence: Father, Son (Jesus), Holy Spirit
Also known as the Trinity---not that that terms is used in The Bible. It doesn't have to be used in The Bible for people to refer to the Father, Son (Jesus), Holy Spirit as the Trinity, obviously.
(Edited by zeffur)
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