Deconstructing " God " through language cognates ImAMoron: People say there is a creator deity, they call it " God ", and claim it created everything Do you think the veracity of this will hold up under some linguistic analysis ? ImAMoron: Reasonable answer imo, ghost There are quite a few topics that fall under the umbrella of what is colloquially called " linguistic archaeology " ImAMoron: I guess a good place to start is simple language cognates, etymologies & roots Should we start with " elohim " or " jehovah " ?  ghostgeek: Isn't Elohim the plural of El? Doubtless there's some reason it refers to God in the singular but it does show that without a grasp of Hebrew one is very much left to the whims of translators when it comes to studying the Old Testament. ImAMoron: How it's meant to be read depends entirely on the context: (plural) rulers, judges divine ones angels gods (plural intensive - singular meaning) god, goddess godlike one works or special possessions of God the (true) God God ImAMoron: Just to clarify, it's used to refer to more than the creationist deity " God " Moses, for example, is declared to be Elohim by the pharaoh's daughter The Rabbi Maimonides gave a commentary that is worth reading: "Some years ago a learned man asked me a question of great importance; the problem and the solution which we gave in our reply deserve the closest attention. Before, however, entering upon this problem and its solution I must premise that every Hebrew knows that the term Elohim is a homonym, and denotes God, angels, judges, and the rulers of countries, and that Onkelos the proselyte explained it in the true and correct manner by taking Elohim in the sentence, 'and ye shall be like Elohim' (Gen. iii. 5) in the last-mentioned meaning, and rendering the sentence 'and ye shall be like princes.' Having pointed out the homonymity of the term "Elohim" we return to the question under consideration" (Guide for the Perplexed I.2). really tho, to get to the meat and potatoes of the word, you want to first look at it's triliteral roots That will give you a foundation to look at cognate words in other languages like Egyptian or Akkadian, etc ImAMoron: So now that I've shown you that " Elohim " is rather generic word in Hebrew, and also applies to humans, lets move on to another ( Unless you want to go deeper with the etymology of that term, just let me know ) Should we do " El " or " Jehovah " next ?  ghostgeek: I can't say why but Jehovah sounds slightly unbiblical. Yahweh, El and heaven knows who else can pass muster but not Jehovah. I guess it comes from having to send Jehovah's Witnesses away with a flea in their ear. ImAMoron: " Jehovah " comes from " havah ", meaning, properly, " to breathe " ( You can check this in the Hebrew concordances ) I'd suggest an obvious relationship to the Egyptian " union symbol " that signified rule over a unified Egypt ( North + South ) When a pharaoh was wearing the Pschent, the double-crown, he was " God " ( As the earthly manifestation of Ra ) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_symbol_(hieroglyph) That's why the hieroglyph is of lungs and a trachea The theme of " spirit " and " breath " being associated in Abrahamic religions is most definitely Egyptian in origin, and refers to the classic tradition of the Pharaoh's " Ka Nesu " ( Holy spirit ) interacting with the " Ka " ( Spirit ) of the people he ruled over " Creation from speech " = Egyptian tradition ImAMoron: To add to the " abraham from Ur " conversation, sans zan- The name " abraham " is from the word " ab " ( father ) The Hebrew word " ab " is from the Akkadian " abu ", which the online Hebrew concordances also state: Ab - noun, masculine, meaning " father " - Assyrian abu Check it for yourselves - https://biblehub.com/hebrew/1.htm The Akkadian " abu " in turn is from the Sumerian word " Abba " Here's the entry from the ePSD: abba [FATHER] (107x: ED IIIb, Old Akkadian, Ur III, Old Babylonian) wr. ab; ab-ba; abba2 "old (person); witness; father; elder; an official" Akk. abu; šību Here's a few orthographic variations on name of Ur in cuneiform: 𒋀𒀊𒆠 𒌶𒆠 𒋀𒀕𒆠 -------------- Here is the symbol for " abu / abba " ( Father ) " Abu " = 𒀊 " Ur " = 𒋀𒀊𒆠 It is literally a phonetic component of the name of Ur, where " Abraham " was said to have come from OK ? Please, do yourselves a solid and avoid " a quick google " when you investigate these topics, spending 60 seconds reading will not inform you much ghostgeek: I had a quick look at the ePSD website and found myself floundering. As you say, 60 seconds is far too short a time to get to grips with such a complicated subject. ImAMoron: Glad you checked it out ! The ePSD is actually hyperlinked to the ETCSL, the CCP, the CDLI, Oracc, and a host of other sites They are all university collaborations, iirc, and I've used them for years along with other sources Egyptian is a whole separate rabbit hole in itself, lol ghostgeek: Modern languages are a closed book to me, so delving into long dead ones isn't something I would ever do lightly. Still, who knows, a compelling reason might present itself one day and then off to those websites you mentioned I will traipse.
ImAMoron: So starting with a source like Wikipedia, we see : ------------------------ ʼĒl (also 'Il, Ugaritic: 𐎛𐎍 ʾīlu; Phoenician: 𐤀𐤋 ʾīl; Hebrew: אֵל ʾēl; Syriac: ܐܺܝܠ ʾīyl; Arabic: إل ʾīl or إله ʾilāh; cognate to Akkadian: 𒀭, romanized: ilu) is a Northwest Semitic word meaning "god" or "deity", or referring (as a proper name) to any one of multiple major ancient Near Eastern deities. A rarer form, 'ila, represents the predicate form in Old Akkadian and in Amorite.The word is derived from the Proto-Semitic *ʔil-, meaning "god" ------------------------ Now the first thing I will point out, is that 𒀭 is classically used when writing the names of human priest-kings You're probably familiar with the concept of a priest-king from the Bible, like Jesus or Melchizedek, but the lineages of divine kings predate the Bible by ages, and 𒀭 is essentially like a trademark symbol for the name of a person carrying the lineage This started with the Akkadian king Naram-Sin, the first known Mesopotamian king to have claimed divinity ( Circa 2100 BC ) ------------------------- Dingir (𒀭, usually transliterated DIĜIR, Sumerian pronunciation: [tiŋiɾ]) is a Sumerian word for "god" or "goddess". Its cuneiform sign is most commonly employed as the determinative for religious names and related concepts, in which case it is not pronounced and is conventionally transliterated as a superscript "d" as in e.g. d^Inanna The cuneiform sign by itself was originally an ideogram for the Sumerian word an ("sky" or "heaven"; its use was then extended to a logogram for the word diĝir ("god" or "goddess" and the supreme deity of the Sumerian pantheon An, and a phonogram for the syllable /an/. Akkadian took over all these uses and added to them a logographic reading for the native ilum and from that a syllabic reading of /il/. In Hittite orthography, the syllabic value of the sign was again only an. The concept of "divinity" in Sumerian is closely associated with the heavens, as is evident from the fact that the cuneiform sign doubles as the ideogram for "sky", and that its original shape is the picture of a star. It is also of note that the eight-pointed star was a chief symbol for the goddess Inanna. The original association of "divinity" is thus with "bright" or "shining" hierophanies in the sky ------------------------------------------------- This cuneiform symbol 𒀭 is heavily referenced in the Hebrew Bible as well as the New Testament The Bible always associates royal lineages with " stars " Like the " Star from Jacob " prophecy in the Hebrew Bible In fact, if you look up the Hebrew word for " star " in the Hebrew concordance, it will tell you this figuratively refers to a prince ( Someone of royal blood ) The Hebrew word for " star " is also the feminine form of the name of Venus, and the old city seal for Jerusalem itself was a 5 pointed star referring to the " Venus pentagram " in astronomy ( Google it ) Check it yourself ----------> https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3556.htm So that's a few strikes against the Abrahamic trope of " God ", but let me dig deep into my notes so we can really start to take this " God " apart I'll post some more in a few days ghostgeek: Not being an expert in these matters I'm likely to have arrived at some odd conclusions, but my sense of how the Hebrew religion developed is that somebody took some pre-existing narratives, one's that were unrelated to each other, and used them to fashion a new, connected narrative to bolster a developing current of religious belief that was at odds with the established order. | Religion Chat Room 27 People Chatting Similar Conversations |