"it's not supernatural, its nature itself" (Page 2)

franklin1950: a lot of people have difficulty being able to not disbelieve .

Red_Clover: I have had many experiences with supernatural things or odd dreams and premonitions.
And i have met ppl who are deep into these beliefs spiritually and work on this level.
It has been my experience, that not everything is supernatural...many things can be due to mental illness or explained.
But there are things that you just cant explain and there is a different feeling to them.
its just something you know, even ppl who deny a experience because they cant mentally take it, deep down know.
Sometimes you have to let them- explain it away- because not everyone is meant to understand.

Geoff: With sufficient study EVERYTHING can be explained.

Nothing is outside of the mundane, it is just that the gullible human mind is all too willing to ascribe such events that are immediately comprehensible to spirits, ghosts, faeries, demons, gods and other superstitious bs.

Yellow_Snow: Secular words from Maha64456. Although she claims to be Islamic...?

maha64456: maybe not everything can be explained but just because we couldn't figure it out yet... maybe not ever but that doesn't mean it's paranormal...
for me i think of everything like "if...then ...else..." and "Cause and effect "
still i believe in the creator of everything

Zanjan: Why should this be so confusing? After all, this is a modern age which offers a wealth of knowledge so, there's no place for superstitions and traditional fears anymore.

We have the tools to prove things with cognitive skills to unravel mysteries. Collectively, that gives moderns far greater potential than the ancients to understand the unseen, albeit, the depth of grasp still depends on individual capacity.

Zanjan: By the way, mental illness and mental disturbance are NOT the same thing.

We're discussing a SINGLE reality, expressed through different dimensions. For humans, that translates upfront as two planes of existence we can recognize and know....at least for now. If it were otherwise, we wouldn't be talking about them.

"Super-natural" means 'above' nature. It's the world beyond the physical plane of existence - that is, it has substance but is not material substance. Can you trap a thought? Nope, you can only record the presence of thought processing via electro-magnetic activity in a brain.

Whereas, mind and spirit have a supernatural component - they exist but can't be confined by the physical; there is no scientific tool to record them but we see them with our intellect. The power of genuine love is supernatural; it has no boundaries. God is supernatural; so is your soul - neither are bound by the limitations of the physical plane of existence. You cant record their existence, only the effect of their existence.

That which is physical is always changing; whatever the form, it will eventually be destroyed; however, the stuff its made of doesn't disappear, it's merely reclaimed by the earth and recycled into other forms. The simplest aspect of the natural world is that nothing remains static.

Nature is an expression of the Will of God, not the only expression by any means! Thus, creation can't depart from the orderly laws of the universe. There is order and connection among and between diverse living creatures, evidenced by their symbiotic relationships with each other. There is a balance of nature, a crucible by which those invisible yet recognized forces drive those things on their courses of development - that is supernatural.

The word "paranormal" refers to an event aside from the norm - that is, an unusual/abnormal occurrence which is attributed to the supernatural.

We've barely begun to understand the power invested in our souls - that is, we recognize that some powers are latent, that some of us are more sensitive to their blips and burps, and they have an effect on all of us - more than you know.

Yet some of those powers are intended for the next world; so, while we live in this one, we're preparing to become worthy to use them in the next one. They wont bloom until our 'stems' are strong enough to bear them.

lori100: the govt believes in the 'supernatural'......----From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Project MKOFTEN was a covert Department of Defense program developed in conjunction with the CIA. A partner program to MKSEARCH, the goal of MKOFTEN was to "test the behavioral and toxicological effects of certain drugs on animals and humans".[1]

According to author Gordon Thomas' 2007 book, Secrets and Lies, the CIA's Operation Often was also initiated by the chief of the CIA's Technical Services Branch, Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, to "explore the world of black magic" and "harness the forces of darkness and challenge the concept that the inner reaches of the mind are beyond reach". As part of Operation Often, Dr. Gottlieb and other CIA employees visited with and recruited fortune-tellers, palm-readers, clairvoyants, astrologists, mediums, psychics, specialists in demonology, witches and warlocks, Satanists, other occult practitioners, and more.[2]

Zanjan: Well, THAT'S playing with fire, except worse.

You know, when a chemistry experiment produces a nasty physical reaction, at least we know it has its limitations insofar as the damage it can cause. Only the experimenters get burned. That's why we don't combine foreign chemicals in a large vat and throw living creatures in it just to see what happens.

One shouldn't mess with things they know *nothing* about, things one can't control. It isn't just the experimenters who get burned; and, when you don't have the cure for the burn, you can't come back from that.

Zanjan: I think technology is treading on thin ice right now - too many scientists want to play god to get their name in lights. I hear they're less than 6 years away from cloning a Mastodon - they have no idea what their doing! I weep, in advance, for the victims.

Yet no one is speaking up to stop science from becoming the source of evil.

duncan124:

The sleep of reason produces monsters (Spanish: El sueño de la razón produce monstruos)...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sleep_of_Reason_Produces_Monsters

In Britain we had the worse haunting in history through the 1980s.

"We have the tools to prove things with cognitive skills to unravel mysteries. Collectively, that gives moderns far greater potential than the ancients to understand the unseen, albeit, the depth of grasp still depends on individual capacity. " Zanjan.

" Nature is an expression of the Will of God, not the only expression by any means! Thus, creation can't depart from the orderly laws of the universe. There is order and connection among and between diverse living creatures, evidenced by their symbiotic relationships with each other. There is a balance of nature, a crucible by which those invisible yet recognized forces drive those things on their courses of development" Zanjan.

" Yet no one is speaking up to stop science from becoming the source of evil "Zanjan

I don't understand what you are saying or why you keep pointing the finger at Science.

All natural things must obey the laws of nature and seek food and mates. When they depart from that order they die.

It is the nature of the Supernatural to be beyond ordinary life.

Zanjan: What is your point in posting that link?

"Super" means "above", "extra", "greater than", depending on context. This implies there's a base, a foundation. That's not beyond ordinary life. How many people have a life that's the same all the time, start to finish?

Humans were created to rise above nature - they don't rise to nothing, something is there. If one defies gravity by flying to the moon (only a few people did), their high IQ doesn't defy nature, and they've used the laws of nature to get there.

So, we're talking about something that doesn't belong to physical nature but co-exists with it. If we rise to something that's superior to basic human nature, we'd call that our super-nature, a way of being that surpasses the former.

That is, unlike all other living creatures, humans aren't boxed in by instinct; they're able to surmount it, subduing their impulses. That takes spiritual power - supernatural power, not figments of imagination.

duncan124:

supernatural

ˌsuːpəˈnatʃ(ə)r(ə)l

adjective

1.(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.
"a supernatural being"
synonyms: paranormal, psychic, magic, magical, occult, mystic, mystical, miraculous, superhuman, supernormal, hypernormal, extramundane; More
noun

2
manifestations or events considered to be of supernatural origin, such as ghosts.
"a frightening manifestation of the supernatural"

Zanjan: Duncan, the second citation is the common usage but not what the word actually means - it's two words together (which doesn't spell magic or hallucination) ; they're two 'worlds' together.

Science is the study of the physical world - naturally, it doesn't apply to anything else. The human sciences studies behaviours; these are the intangibles, like habit, cognitive abilities, instinct response, and communication. They're a branch of physical science because they depend on bodily organic processes, which are the tangibles that affect the intangibles. Not supernatural.

We've heard of people who have a super human ability. That means an extra ability that other humans don't have. These ARENT TRICKS - they're real abilities. No deception involved.

The same can be said for spiritual power, which is a requirement for evolution. Even the best athlete in the world needs at least one spiritual power - for example, perseverance rises from determination - that requires sheer will. Science can't give you an explanation for that.

A superb racehorse is one who runs with all his heart, not necessarily the one who's got the best build or best jockey. When recruiting hockey players, actors, or military special ops, we don't pick by level of skill - we look for the one who's got the fire in their belly because, not only will they acquire the skill via their dedication, they'll rise above all afflictions, flaws and pain, cranking it up to something inexplicably unbeatable. That's the mark of greatness.

The soul, on the other hand, is a supernatural being - like spirit, it's not made of physical substance. So, anything the soul does is also a supernatural action, driven by will.

Imagination, frightening or not, is brain-centered; any animal can do it so, it's not an action of the soul. Animals have spirits, not souls. Thus, souls can do what they can't.

Zanjan: Just because something is mysterious, that doesn't mean it's what we think it is.

duncan124:

lovebirdus: "Can anyone provide a logical explaination for supernatural and paranormal? of course u should believe in it first."

Supernatural has always meant something bad or evil.

I have read your post Zanjan but I can not agree with what you wrote.

Zanjan do you believe in the bad or evil Supernatural and if so do you also believe that it could be given a logical or even scientific explanation?

lori100: It is of note that the CIA wanted to harness the forces of darkness...it fits what they do so no surprise there......the supernatural often means bad, but people are afraid of what they can't control or understand... some very religious people have natural highly developed psychic abilities but have been taught by their religion those abilities are evil and so they are afraid of it and try to suppress it....

Zanjan: Duncan "Supernatural has always meant something bad or evil."

Only for Hollywood Film producers - fantasy is good business. Some people really like horror, the more gruesome and sick, the better.

"I can not agree with what you wrote."

You mean not a SINGLE thing? Nothing? Nada? Oh my.

"Zanjan do you believe in the bad or evil Supernatural "

Neither. Like Lori said, when people feel powerless and afraid, they interpret many events as being bad for themselves. When a lot of bad things happens in a row, they feel 'cursed'. Evil has no substance - it just looks like it because it's a shadow compared to the good. It's merely an absence of power.

Deeply flawed individuals have a problem with their subconscious thoughts leaking into their conscious minds. You see, they'd believed they could stifle bad thoughts and memories of their misdeeds, cover them up and pack them away. Just forget them. Well, not so - they resurfaced like, mold. Yep, if you stare at mold long enough, you can see it's hairy fingers moving.

Where would Disney be without that kind of excitement? Life is so much easier when you can just blame someone or something for your own wrongs.........until it comes back to haunt you. Then it looks very real and uglier than it did the first time.

Science agrees with religion that the monsters under the bed seem real to their owners but can't harm anything because they're just a reflection of one's own mind. NOT supernatural. Religion should know - it specializes in the supernatural.

Zanjan: Lori: "some very religious people have natural highly developed psychic abilities but have been taught by their religion those abilities are evil....."

Yes, those are the ignorant ones, the ones who've not had any experience themselves and don't know their own place. The informed ones understand - what they're against is dabbling in the occult, trying to command it, and breaking into places without God's permission. That's dangerous to their mental stability.

Most psychic powers are supposed to remain latent because most individuals aren't properly prepared to deal with them. That isn't true for the naturally gifted, who know where they shouldn't and can't go. All they have to do is abuse it once and they lose it.

lori100: I have heard psychics say they knew some psychics who used their ability to get rich quick and did lose their abilities...

duncan124:

A door that slams without a draft to move it, lights that are turned on off when there is no one there, a something that tries your door handle late at night, foot prints on the path, a stranger on the road when the road is blocked by snow, a dark shape under the hedge....

Supernatural has always meant something bad or evil. Zanjan I think you are confusing Supernatural and Paranormal with Evil which includes other things and saying things you don't mean.

Lori I think people with extra senses can shift for themselves.

I think we need practical answers for ordinary people.

When you have met four or five tall policemen in the road who turn and shout " Run for it " and run themselves because of a Supernatural thing coming the other way you read posts like some of those above with great sadness.

Zanjan: Lori>> I have heard psychics say they knew some psychics who used their ability to get rich quick and did lose their abilities... "

Yep. The problem is they used to be good but lost their touch before they admitted to it. For awhile, they had to fake it, thinking it might return, until it became obvious they were no longer functioning that way. Those are the ones they called qwacks.

I suppose the same thing happened to the guys who ended up as mad scientists. There's no end to people who will shoot themselves in the foot.

Zanjan: Duncan, I don't confuse the paranormal with the supernatural because everything belonging to the supernatural comes from God, is good, and is perfectly clear and understandable. There is fruition.

For example, with the supernatural, there's no mystery when one senses a strong presence in the room and feels a figure is there - why? Because they know who the figure is. They know the purpose for the figure being present. The situation doesn't repeat because it doesn't need to. Sometimes, more than one person can experience this same thing at the same time but that's not common. They all know where it comes from.

The paranormal means "aside from the norm"; it comes from minds that don't understand what they've perceived. They admit to an event as being mysterious with no explanation. They can't imagine its purpose and many times, it has a simple explanation the individual overlooked. Those are just flukes, tricks of the mind which amount to nothing.

It's true that psychic abilities have been attributed to the paranormal but if a person is truly psychic, that's normal for *them*. They're used to it. You will see fruition. No one is ever in a state of constant access to these abilities; the real psychic knows where it comes from and what it's for.

Did Jesus and His crew have a paranormal experience with the "transfiguration'? No, they had a supernatural experience. They spiritually understood....not so for those who've simply read about it.

Zanjan: That said, yes, ordinary people do need a practical explanation but the list is too long to tackle every possible event, each might have a different explanation. So, we cluster the most common experiences reported and try to classify those.

Dictionary terms often follow trendy usage of words among folks, even wrongly applied; that leads to confusion. You know, like the term "near miss" - grammatically, that actually means a HIT but the media still insists on using it wrongly.

Our language has so many words that mean the same thing. For example, up until 50 years ago, people used the word "spirit" and "soul" interchangeably. Thank goodness better means of communication has fixed that. Most of us now know the difference.

I don't think we'll be changing the names for 'astral projection (travel), telepathy, or clairvoyance anytime soon. Everybody knows what those are and what they do; they're common enough. Their rightful classification is "Extra Sensory Perception", an ability many people have to some degree, if only having had such an experience twice in a lifetime. Even some animals have such experiences. In that light, one might see it as natural.

Therefore, it's technically wrong to slot those things into the category of the "paranormal", which assumes an other-worldly view where one world telescopes into another world.

duncan124:

I don't think you have the foggiest idea and your quotes from a dictionary seem to show a confused mind. Perhaps you should n't read this thread?

Imagine something as obvious as a red London bus and as frequent. In a big open countryside you can see them going about along the roads day and night.

That is how powerful and manifest it was.