Global Warming? 2011 shows we are 1.5 degrees warmer! (Page 3)

GeraldTheGnome: Climate change never did, never will and isn't one and the same as Global Warming, current Global Warming theories are unrealistic and full of sensationalism. Million year old Glaciers have disappeared ? Show me even one speck of Earth where there even has been Million year old Glaciers that vanished in the last 300 years ? Melting away drastically ? Some areas have been melting, where is debatable due to dodgy reports. Oceans are poisoned by various pollutants, that has never had anything to do with any form of global warming that existed and never will when global warming exist when it eventually happens. Is there proof that Global Warming can be caused by humans ? No. Skeptical ? No, just realistic and I just don't buy into the doomsday prophets theories, sensationalism sells, the media, certain scientists and politicians all know this (most for their own selfish reasons though will play on the sensationalist side of things).

Who was right on the money ? Do you know anything about Ozone holes and do you know anything about magnetic polar shifts ? Air pollution is bad. Is it really tied into the global warming theory ? Hey, no one can and no one ever has been able to predict the weather so why believe that someone used to be and why believe the meteorologists that can't even tell you what tomorrows weather is going to be yet they claim they know what it will be like in 20 years ? I'd ask for a refund from your bookie otherwise your money will be gone. Pollution does ruin the balance of nature. Does it ruin it in the way that you think ? No. There's damage, no denial there, reality is that some people deny that the sensationalists get things wrong. Let's admit that, that won't kill anyone. Ask the questions rather than think that the sensationalists have all the answer. 2012, will come and go without any permanent trouble, that is what is realized to be upon us. 2012, a big deal about nothing.

Zanjan: Glacier National Park Canada. Most of the glaciers are gone - in just 2 decades. They never melted after the last ice age..in the last 10 years we've lost 15 of them. There's 3 big ones left, that's it - those will be gone by 2020. I've seen it with my own eyes. Seems like you're ignoring the melting arctic ice shelf and rising sea levels too.

Climate change naturally happens in cycles, but not this fast. Please go on ignoring how the magnetic north pole has moved thousands of miles in the last hundred years, after being stable since man started recording. Not saying man caused that.........I'm saying if you're foolish enough to ignore nature, you deserve what happens to you as a result.

GeraldTheGnome: Thank you doomsday prophet, I'd rather check things out carefully rather than jump to conclusions. Try it. By the way climate change isn't always warming of any sort, no matter if it is regional or global, global being the one that will happen again one day but it is a long way off. This is a text service so neither of us are saying anything, I ignore the sensationalism and take note of the reality, we all deserve what happens to us by what we individually do, not by 'nature' or by someone's petty threats. The magnetic pole ? Interesting. Humans moved the magnetic pole ?

Zanjan: The thread is about global warming - that's what the rest of us are talking about. You know, I've jumped right onto a glacier a few times - go ahead and tell me it wasn't wet. While you're checking that statement out carefully, you can explain to me why it's no longer there. I think that's pretty sensational, given how old it was.

As for who deserves what, innocents always get caught in the mess others make, no matter what they do. What, you didn't know a magnetic north pole existed?

GeraldTheGnome: The rest of us ? You and I don't represent the rest. You've been to a glacier ? I have been to an advancing glacier and I have been to a retreating one. When the claim of glaciers being millions of years old is made all credibility is thrown out the window. Innocent people always get caught in everything, I don't need a weekend scientist to show me that. First of all there is a big difference in the magnetic pole and the geo-magentic pole, even then it must be explained which one you mean. Does the north magnetic pole move at the same rate as the geo-magentic pole and does the South Magnetic Pole move at the same rate as the South geo-magnetic pole ? Then do both or one of those poles move at the same rate as each other or at the same direction,distance and/or rate as either both the North Magnetic Pole and the North Geo-magnetic pole ?

Could things such as severe earthquakes alter the rate, distance and/or direction of any of the poles ? Places have warmed up in certain parts of the world during the time of recorded history just as they have cooled down back to their usual temperatures as has Greenland in the past, which will happen again. I can be shown as many examples of places warming up, just as I can show at least twice the amount of places that haven't. Once again, humans moved the magnetic pole ? To be more specific, humans moved any of the poles ?

The Vikings assumed that Greenland was either warming up or that the weather at the time was the way it usually was, when it got back to the usual manner the Vikings got a nasty surprise, just as those that assume Greenland is going to stay the way it is now will find.

I checked out everything carefully. There are a lot of inconsistencies with GOVERNMENT PAID Scientists, I will never bow down to their sensationalism. Sensationalism sells more books, videos, gets more news covering (therefore higher ratings) as well as it providing a very convenient cash cow for the politicians that expect most people to be gullible and believe their BS. Sometimes the news stories have more impact when they are very sensational, if they just went on the reality rather than the spin then the media would find that that it is 'much ado about nothing.'

As for things disappearing or appearing, that has happened over a very gradual rate. Some places have dried out over a very long period of time while other places have got wetter over a very long period of time, not all of those examples are caused partially or at all by global warming or global cooling periods.

Have you noticed that it isn't just me on this forum that doesn't buy the GOVERNMENT FUNDED hype ? Even the Media have to be blamed for their NEW IDEA (TM) sensationalism. Often if anyone goes half way between things that the different sides come up with then anyone will find the reality and therefore the real undeniable truth.

GeraldTheGnome: Oh yeah the so-called rising sea levels increasing at a staggering rate is interesting too, it takes more than 10 years for large Ice bodies to melt. The last 10 years ? Globally or regionally ? Globally ? No. Regionally ? If the proof is there for the regional warming of 10 years then so be it, until then I will wait.

Unusual weather isn't always tied into Global warming events. Global Warming going on now though is just a weakly cobbled together theory without any substance to it, it shouldn't even be a topic on this site, online or anywhere else in the world. I get sick of the conspiracy theorists wasting the time and money of people (including that of me) on this rubbish. If Global Warming does exist and it is caused by humans then why do governments only fund those that support the theory ? If the claims are true then they have nothing to lose by funding those that go against the theory. A theory isn't always a fact, even the low tide here is not higher than it used to be. Show where that is not true then you'll have a lot more people on your side.

Zanjan: Are you serious? The geographic north pole is NOT magnetic! It's also stationary. All my life, I've lived 1 hour away from the Columbia Icefields so you need not educate me about the world of ICE.

It's true some glaciers are advancing; however, they're thinning and damming up - not expanding. Very few are genuinely growing in height and width; those are usually found near mountain summits at really high altitudes above sea level. The nearest old lacier to me is at the same altitude as my home on the prairie - a mere 3,300 ft ASL. Some aren't real glaciers - they're just snow pack, which varies every year, like the miss-named Mt.St Helen's crater glacier. Snow pack is what you have on TOP of a glacier. There's an 8 million year old glacier in Antarctica, about 300 feet thick - scientific factoid, the oldest to date.

If you combine nature's cyclic forces and man's increased industrial & technological activity, that's a double whammy - results WILL be noticed. Gerald, you're persistently ignoring that global warming is about the SPEED of change - shockingly sudden, in geological time. Natural changes are slow. It doesn't matter who pays the scientists, or what dance they perform - the evidence matters.

Gerald, I'm sure we can count on you to do absolutely nothing about the environment. That wont stop others from doing something.

Zanjan: As a side note, I didn't intend to imply all glaciers are the same age - most are a few hundred years to hundreds of thousands of years old, depending on location. Greenland's current ice sheet is 110,000 years old so, it was never a temperate isle to the Vikings.

GeraldTheGnome: It was warmer when the Vikings were there, then it went back to the usual pattern, in fact it was warmer there when they were there than it is now. No one ever mentioned that even any two glaciers were the same age but 'glaciers that have been around for millions of years' was a big stretch of the imagination.

Zanjan: The Vikings never left the shoreline areas, which are always warmer than inland anywhere on earth. It wasnt warmer then - it was downright miserable. The vikings named it Greenland to distract voyagers away from Iceland, which they also named, and where it was a whole lot warmer. They wanted the spoils to themselves. It seems you're not one to bother with verifying information that comes your way. No problem, your choice to be a lemming.

GeraldTheGnome: I'm not a Lemming and you have assumed that it wasn't warmer than that it is now. Do your own research and you'll find out that. They did still name it Greenland as a kind of 'sales plug', it wasn't some Green paradise, but it still was warmer than it is now. There is no need to argue just for the sake of arguing. When it got colder (which meant when it went back it's usual pattern) they left, those that stayed died because they weren't able to adapt to the cold unlike the Eskimos in Greenland. Verify that.

GeraldTheGnome: holloworbs.com under Greenland Vikings. skepticalscience.com under Greenland used to be green. I should make this clear, Greenland never was Green, it was never ideal for farming and it still isn't even during this warm phase even though certain things can be grown there at the moment, it was though, a place that was more favourable to farming than it is now during this warm phase that it is going through.

I have put this on just in case anyone assumes that I do not have any information behind me (which is nothing new on this site) because they are too slack to check out the same information that I can easily find. It is not that hard to debunk the sensationalist theories no matter how much the media, doomsday scientists, governments and some others want us to buy into their conspiracy theories.

Serabi:

The earth is in flux. Tectonic plates move, earthquakes happen, volcanoes erupt, the Himalayas are getting higher because of moving continents, etc Things happen. Mini ice ages are on record. Surely we can't expect everything to stay the same because we want it to?

Serabi:

From the NASA web site:-

Using the equations of magnetohydrodynamics, a branch of physics dealing with conducting fluids and magnetic fields, Glatzmaier and colleague Paul Roberts have created a supercomputer model of Earth's interior. Their software heats the inner core, stirs the metallic ocean above it, then calculates the resulting magnetic field. They run their code for hundreds of thousands of simulated years and watch what happens.

What they see mimics the real Earth: The magnetic field waxes and wanes, poles drift and, occasionally, flip. Change is normal, they've learned. And no wonder. The source of the field, the outer core, is itself seething, swirling, turbulent. "It's chaotic down there," notes Glatzmaier. The changes we detect on our planet's surface are a sign of that inner chaos.

They've also learned what happens during a magnetic flip. Reversals take a few thousand years to complete, and during that time--contrary to popular belief--the magnetic field does not vanish. "It just gets more complicated," says Glatzmaier. Magnetic lines of force near Earth's surface become twisted and tangled, and magnetic poles pop up in unaccustomed places. A south magnetic pole might emerge over Africa, for instance, or a north pole over Tahiti. Weird. But it's still a planetary magnetic field, and it still protects us from space radiation and solar storms.