Just lookin for good conversation, and fun times, and goofin off...and ...and...CHEESE!!!
lisbail: Ok, you will never understand until you have your very own, personal, experience with God/Holy Spirit/Jesus. Then and only then will you fully/completely understand what you do not but think you do. And then you will be able to stop persecuting the rest of us. And, you will be able to answer your own questions and enlighten the world on what is missing in Christians. Until then its a Merry-Go-Round. So do yourself and us a favor and ask, ever so nicely, And then come share And get this...you can still choose to not believe...and that's OK too because it is your choice....know what I mean?
Heck, you might be like the Apostle Paul
Crash: Top Ten Signs You’re a Fundamentalist Christian
10 – You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 – You feel insulted and “dehumanized” when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
8 – You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
7 – Your face turns purple when you hear of the “atrocities” attributed to Allah, but you don’t even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in “Exodus” and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in “Joshua” including women, children, and trees!
6 – You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 – You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
4 – You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs — though excluding those in all rival sects – will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most “tolerant” and “loving.”
3 – While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in “tongues” may be all the evidence you need to “prove” Christianity.
2 – You define 0.01% as a “high success rate” when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 – You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history – but still call yourself a Christian.
Crash: Beautiful Things
"One of the biggest mistakes in my life was believing that if I cast a beautiful net, I'd catch only beautiful things." There are darker things...things unseen by the day. Things that inhale your screams, and chase the beautiful things away. The net can do only so much, you see.....when the nightmares lurk and creep.
They drift just out of reach......and prey...when you fall down at night to sleep. The beautiful things run wildly then, as they lack both fang and claw. The darkness tears the net asunder , within a gaping maw. Silence then, the dark replies. It's soul and heart awake. I find the empty tears and cries, with none a sound to make. Cold, so cold, inside the dark. No warmth for me shall bring. The memory of the waking light. Or all those beautiful things. My hand outstretched, in last surrender, the last I will ever get. My fingers find and grasp, then grab...another beautiful net. One other may cast a net you see, into the dark abyss. Then one to pull you back and free, from the darkest, blackest kiss. The light becomes so clear to me, As I see your smiling face. The darkness fades behind be...with a whisper of a common place. I spend the day inside your arms, knowing it will not last. I weave my net, and say my charms....before the darkness shares it's grasp. For tonight I wonder , when I cast my net. Will the beautiful things come to play? Or will they be swallowed by the cold, of the darkness that ends the day? So remember dear friends ....when you cast your net. No matter how many bells do ring. It NEVER only catches .... the simply beautiful things.
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Crash: My thoughts on people saying "I'll pray for you" are this:
"Your prayer isn't for me. It's for you. It's a failsafe born out of cognitive dissonance. Without your prayers you have to make sense of why my life still going just like it was going before I identified as an atheist. By praying behind my back you can assure yourself that whatever good happens in my life, or whatever shit I crawl out of myself, your god can still get the credit. And so I forbid you to pray for me. My good life without god will not be used as a mental pacifier for your inability to accept a world where people can be good, and do good without god."
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Zanjan: "Many people have very intelligent conversations while intoxicated.....this is simply DEMONSTRABLY true"
I grew up with drunks all around me, including both my parents - I know them inside and out. Some are happy, silly drunks, some are ugly, nasty drunks but ONLY drunks think they're marvelous, even when unable to spit out the word "cat" properly. That's why I stopped accepting invitations to chat with you.
There's a point where the character folds in and collapses, regardless of soberness. You're no less verbally abusive sober than you are soused. We don't have to enable that. Even God has a line where patience ends because it's not in your best interest. For that reason, it's not likely I'll be replying to you again.
Crash: And with that comment you just illustrated you have a PERSONAL agenda when it comes to alcohol. You have a preformed opinion about it because of how you grew up. Which sways you to one side of the narrative , and makes you dishonest in your discussions.
Yes alcohol has negative effects , however it also has absolutely PROVEN POSITIVE effects. So....your personal experiences mean NOTHING in the context of talking about a "god."
This is just yet another one of your idiotic attempts to change the topic to something COMPLETELY different for you to avoid embarrassment and humiliation.
I ripped you apart logically and factually in my last post...and your response was to bring up personal experience about your parents and alcohol.....FAIL!!
I'm happy you won't be replying again....then I won't have to take time out to rip apart another idiotic dishonest garbage post from you.
Take care dishonest hypocrite. Trying fucking off with someone that doesn't know better and can't see through your blatant bullshit.
Srchng4Truth: @ Jare: I am SO sorry for what that person did to you when your dog passed. I want to say that not all prayers are attempts at conversion at least not in an argumentative fashion. I pray for everything in existence including God. I genuinely care about people including atheists. When I pray for someone, it is because I want the best for them, not because I am trying to convert them. Most people will never know I have prayed for them, and I have no problem with this. In fact I kind of like it. Sorry about your loss
Crash: The Flying Car Analogy
A person comes up to you telling you the wonders of their new flying car (Jesus). They tell you it is very fast, very durable and completely safe. It is so safe the company pays your insurance for you.
They produce a brochure (Bible) full of accolades about the car, which they know so very well. They tell you of their friends who now have flying cars, and how much happier they are for buying them.
I ask for a test drive, but am told no flying cars are available to test drive now. I have to instead make payments (tithing) until I die and after my own demise I shall receive my very own flying car.
I reply “No thank you” as such a contract makes no sense.
I am then told if I fail to enter into the contract the maker of the car (God) will be so angry he will dump me into a volcano if I refuse to enter into the contract.
I see no evidence of the car’s maker (God) or the car (Jesus).
With no evidence to support the reality of the car (Jesus), or maker (God) why should I not think this is a confidence scam?
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Srchng4Truth in reply to Crash: Crash: I don't know you are SO centered on God being like the bible describes Him. Just because that book may have flaws does not invalidate God's existence, and unlike others I have seen proof of God's existence. Mine is not blind faith, but just a scientists observations. God Bless You.
"Crash?? Why do you have to be so nasty to those who believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior?"
I'm not "being nasty" I'm simply calling out the nonsensical nature of your UNVERIFIED truth claims, and asking you to provide evidence for them. If you consider that ..."being nasty" well that seems like a YOU problem.
"However, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Quoting the bible is meaningless until you can demonstrate the bible is accurate and true. Furthermore Faith is the most disingenuous proposition one can have. You don't use or have "Faith" in ANY other facet of you lives.....yet when it comes to arguably the "most important question ever" the subject of a "god"....somehow THAT gets a pass. It's exempt from your evidence based critical thinking that you use EVERYWHERE else. It's dishonest and sad.
"Here is something else to consider...People who don't believe in Jesus will never convince those of us who do, that He does not exist.."
Atheists, as a general rule, aren't trying to convince ANYONE that a "god" doesn't exist. We aren't making a positive claim of truth like theists are. Hence the onus is NOT on the Atheist to provide evidence that a "god" does NOT exist....because we aren't claiming one does not exist.
We are open to the possibility , however we aren't going to just believe it because you "say so" or an unverified book "says so." Conversely....as a general rule xtians ARE making a positive claim of truth when they say "god exists." Hence you assume a burden of proof to provide demonstrable evidence for your claims. Otherwise they are simply empty assertions, completely without substance.
"Why? Because each of us has had an experience with Jesus that we, ourselves cannot deny. "
See my last paragraph......that's an empty claim that you have absolutely no demonstrable evidence for....hence it means nothing to me....and I don't believe you.
Your last paragraph was simply one big Begging the Question Fallacy....so I won't bother addressing it.
"Crash: I don't know you are SO centered on God being like the bible describes Him."
Because that is the ONLY source of "info" that we have to find the characteristics of the biblical "god."
"Just because that book may have flaws does not invalidate God's existence"
Never said it did. What I DID say is that ...if "gods" character is ACCURATELY represented in that book....it's NOT a "god of love." It's VERY far from it.
"and unlike others I have seen proof of God's existence."
Please present your "proof" of "god." I'm all eyes!!!
Crash: So across the multiple debate groups I'm in Christians have been bringing up the moral argument against atheism. Claiming that without a god there is no true morality. That vile things like rape, pedophilia and murder are technically amoral. That any outrage we have against this is arbitrary.
Now to begin with, being atheist does not automatically mean that one is a moral relativist. Atheism does not address morality. So the first thing to point out to any christian using this argument is that you need to stop generalizing and focus your argument against those it actually involves. Moral relativists.
Now with that out of the way we can continue.
My response to this argument is simple. If the Christian god exists pedophilia, rape and murder still are not ultimately wrong. To understand my answer I pose a question.
Is something wrong because god says it is, or does god say it's wrong because it is ultimately wrong? .... (The Euthyphro dilemma)
If it's the former, than morality is still subjective and can be changed according to god's whim. We actually see this throughout the bible. The Christian god breaks it's own moral code time and again leaving Christians to have to justify despicable acts committed by their god.
Further, if everything is part of god's plan and it's plan is ultimately good then all these acts are not only not wrong. They are completely justifiable and morally inconsequential, as they would by definition be a part of god's plan which is ultimately good. The transgressor can also simply repent and ask for forgiveness and will be saved anyways.
If the latter is true, then morality is a force beyond even god and therefore god is not necessary for morality to exist.
In conclusion, if the Christian god exists and dictates morality then nothing is really morally wrong anyways. So the Christian argument actually backfires tremendously. (This is also true for other gods where morality comes into. I simply focused on the Christian god because it has been Christians I've been seeing posing the argument.)
Crash: The clarity of religious faith:
If your child dies at the hands of a suicide bomber, it's god testing your faith. Or maybe punishing your lack of it. Or maybe he can't interfere with the bomber's free will. Or maybe he wanted the child in heaven with him. Or maybe the child was a sinner. Or maybe the child's ancestors were sinners. Or maybe god is acting in mysterious ways. Or maybe it's the work of the devil. Or maybe you worship the wrong god. Or maybe he agrees with the bomber's politics. Or maybe it's part of some great scheme. Or maybe the child was an unbeliever. Etc.,etc.,etc...
The clarity of atheism:
If your child dies when a suicide bomber blows himself up, it's because of religion.
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Crash: "fallen world" Oh such unverifiable nonsense. LOL You seemed smarter and more logical than this to me Lis.....guess I was mistaken.
Your "logic" is essentially ...."Because the bible says so it's true."
Wow....just wow. Disingenuous from the outset. How sad.
Crash: The bible is nothing more than a collection of fiction, mythology, allegory, parables and evangelical writings of ancient superstitious men written to promote a new religion...monotheism, not Christianity.
Although the mythology is fascinating it is more than obvious it was taken from far older mythologies and adapted to suit their own culture. It is also the most poorly written, convoluted, contradictory mythology I have ever studied. It is also an abhorrent mythology filled with stories of a mercurial jealous tyrannical psychotic murderous god that not only condones but participates in genocide, infanticide, filicide, slavery, misogyny, murder and the ultimate blood sacrifice of a human being.
How in the hell can anyone believe in and worship this vile creature is mind-boggling. You shouldn't want this god to exist. It makes Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam, and Mussolini look like Boy Scouts.
How on earth anyone can derive a god of love from the bible is beyond reason.
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Crash: THE TEN COMMANDMENTS ARE UTTER WANK
(1) YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME
Firstly, ignoring the fact that this commandment clearly implies that there are "Other God's", within a Judeo-Christian belief system that is monotheistic by definition...why has Yahweh (God) decided to waste an entire commandment on an authoritarian dictat that seems to revolve entirely around his own lack of self-esteem?
This is an entity that we are encouraged to believe is "Perfect" in every one of its faculties. So, is there any particular reason as to why he demonstrats such a petty human emotion in his very first commandment? Aren't we supposed to expect more?
Moreover, even more ironically; doesn't this imply that if you were to worship another God, that Yahweh would essentially covet that worship? Isn't that ironic?
(2) THOU SHALT NOT MAKE UNTO THEE, ANY GRAVEN IMAGES
Firstly, ignoring the fact that this is another commandment revolving around God being a petty jealous teenager...is someone prepared to politely pull the Catholics to one side for a minute and explain that this is actually a thing? Because they seem to be flagrantly ignoring this one. I guess Christian-art is a tad dull without the occasional bit of idolatry. But hey-ho
But...looking beyond that, and pointing out a tangible and irreconcilable bit of hypocrisy...I would like to point out that the bit of the bible that Hollywood chose not to portray with Charlton Heston, was the fact that 10 minutes after this particular dictat was etched onto stone tablets...Moses made his way down Mount Sinai, only to discover the Jews worshipping a golden calf.
Ignoring the fact that they seem to have forged it surprisingly quickly from the confines of a remote desert...Moses commanded that men marched a thousand paces in all directions and basically murder everyone they saw; just to say sorry for all those golden calves they'd worshipped. Which clearly seems fair. Especially considering that this is a benevolent super-wizard that clearly loves us.
(3) THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE LORDS NAME IN VEIN.
Ok...Can we be a little bit more specific? Because this one's a tad vague. What's God's name? Is it Yahweh? Elohim? Jehovah? God? Gary? Because let's face it...even if we are to play it safe and avoid all of them...is this predicated on intent? Because if I say: "God knows"...what I actually mean is "Nobody knows". So, is that in vein?
If these laws are supposed to be:
is it really so unreasonable to assume that they'd be clear? Because God seems to be about as vague as an estate-agent selling a flat beside a railway line during a national strike.
(4) REMEMBER THE SABBATH, AND KEEP IT HOLY
Ok, it's nice to have a day off occasionally, but this one's a tad vague as well. Are there terms and conditions? Coz what the fuck does "Keep it holy" mean? Can I have a wank? Do I have to pray constantly? Am I morally obligated to eat fish? Eat nothing? Is Church optional? Do I have to actually watch songs of praise? Or do I merely have to support the fact that they still play it?
Is it Saturday or Sunday? Nobody seems to agree on this one! I was always raised to think if was Sunday (Largely because that's when 'Songs Of Praise' is on) But there are these eccentric fuckers that insist it's Saturday. If I'm wrong...do I pass go? Do I collect £200? I hope so...coz this one really seems to be a stab in the dark.
Wish me luck.
(5) HONOUR THY MOTHER AND THY FATHER
Ok, I'll give this one the credit it seems to deserve, by it seeming pretty reasonable and borderline axiomatic. But, I only really assume that because my parents are relatively decent people.
But what happens if my father is Joseph Fritzl? Am I expected to respect my parents if they occasionally rape me? What if they flagrantly break the other rules on this list? Am I suppose to respect them, even if they don't respect you? Is this a grey area? Why are there grey areas? I thought this was suppose to be perfect? This list fucking sucks!
I think it's quite reasonable to assume that respecting ones parents depends largely on the conduct and behaviour of ones parents? Does God expect me to be tacitly complicit in the crimes of my parents....but if I refuse to comply in their crimes: Isn't that disrespectful?
I'm so confused!!!!!
(6) THOU SHALT NOT KILL
This one seems pretty reasonable I suppose. But I have a couple of questions.
1) Why did you command Moses to force jews to walk in every direction killing eachother for breaking commandment No. 2, if this one is suppose to be taken seriously?
2) What if someone is trying to kill me? Do we just cuddle it out?
3) Loads of people seem to be killing in your name. Are they all wrong...or just some of them?
4) Does this extend to creatures that I don't know I've killed, or certainly didn't intend to kill? Because if you wanted this-one to be seriosuly avoided...I guess you shouldn't have put an average of 9759 insects per square foot.
Let's face it....you've made this one a fucking nightmare to take adhere to. Do we all have to gingerly walk around like a bunch of delicate nancies...just to avoid killing things that you clearly didn't give us good enough eye-sight to see? You incensitive sky-wanker!!!
(7) THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
I guess this one's ok. I'm pretty happy with this one to be honest. I've been cheated on, and it's not a nice experiance. But once again...can we be a bit more specific?
What if I'm trying to spice up the marriage, and the Mrs gives 'Swinging' the green light? Is it only nefarious adultery? Or is consensual ok? Can I sext?
What about if I send a dick-pic to an unsuspecting married woman? Has she commited adultery if she smiles; or only if she reciprocate's? What if she sends back a laughing emoji? Is that adultery? Or is she merely mocking my junk?
(8) THOU SHALT NOT STEAL
ok, what if it's stolen from me? Is it still stealing if I steal it back? Where exactly do you stand on property God? Coz the new testament comes across borderline communist!!!
If I tell the police to find something that was stolen from me...are they "Stealing" by actually solving that crime? Coz that totally up-ends our criminal justice system God.
I'm gunna be honest God, I assume you havnt thought these through...coz they fucking suck.
(9) THOU SHALT NOT BARE FALSE WITNESS
Ok, we all hate being lied too. But, let's face it....that depends largely on the context and intent doesn't it. If my manager asks me if she looks good in her new jumper....am I theologically bound to inform her that she looks like a fat cunt? Because I'll be honest...I'm well on board with that.
(10) THOU SHALT NOT COVET
Alright God...we're into thought-crime territory now. Which seems a little pernicious for an entity that I'm required to assume is "Omnibenevolent".
If I'm jealous of something somebody else has....is that not technically your fault? Coz...let's face it buddy...if I'm being judged for inwardly expressing an emotion that you clearly gave me...doesn't that basically make you a cruel kid with a magnifying glass on a hot day, tormenting an ant hill?
Are you genuinely intending to give off this heavy Kim-Jong-Un vibe, with your divine North Korea rules. Because despite the rules leading up to this one being demonstrably shit....I draw the line at thought crime.
I'm going to assume this is your first time God, and that you're perhaps some sort of divine intern. Because let's be honest here pal....not only are these rules utter wank. But they largely contradict each other!!!!
Not mine.....found it on a random forum page on FB ....but OH how accurate and hilarious it is......All credit to original author!!
Crash: My response to an assertion of "god exists" from Matt Slick. He never replied.
Pablum. Mr. Slick you fancy yourself a Master Logician. I'm sorry sir you are anything but. You have been utterly defeated by everyone you "debate." Alex Malpass Illustrated your ignorance on the subject of Logic VERY CLEARLY ! Yet your intellectual dishonesty and cognitive dissonance won't allow you to see this apparently. Not to mention the fact that you....simply don't understand what he's saying !!!
You are disrespectful , smug, dismissive, and have an absolutely undeserved air of superiority ...that is simply hubris and arrogance. You seem to be under the misconception that you are always the smartest person in the room. Perhaps you should rethink that.
Your "arguments" are disjointed at best, logical fallacies puke out of your mouth on regular occasions, yet you accuse everyone else of using them.
You constantly back pedal your fallacious and nonsensical arguments when they are blatantly shown to be in error. "That's not what I said" Etc etc et al.
You don't seem to realize how video recordings work ...and that they can be re-wound.
You use circular reasoning , double standards, special pleading and appeals to authority in almost every debate or talk I've seen you give/have. Somehow that's OK for you...however you jump all over your debate partner when you, mistakenly in most cases, see them doing the same. Perhaps you should cut back on the double standards Matt....it makes you appear dishonest.
Your favorite phrase , from what I can tell , is "Begging the question." I've seen you address that fallacy correctly exactly 4 times in all of your debates....I assume by accident , since you clearly don't understand what it actually is. Google is your friend. Or simply a trip to your local library.
To sum it all up Mr. Slick. Your dishonesty is apparent. Your fundamental misunderstanding or misrepresentation of science is apparent. Your disdain for most of your debate opponents is apparent. Your cognitive dissonance is VERY apparent.
You are more focused on "Winning" than having an open , honest, cogent debate it seems. Which for anyone paying attention ...really says all anyone needs to know about you. How you got so much attention in the debate circuit I can't begin to guess. Perhaps people like a clown? Who Knows?
It's a sad state of affairs when someone such as yourself is so focused on appearances and "not being wrong" that you have to sacrifice integrity and honesty. You would rather question the very nature of reality ....than admit to yourself , simply the POSSIBILITY , that you could be in error. Yet you say you agree that reality "is what it is." I'm sorry Matt...your statements say otherwise.
You're transparent Matt.
Well....thanks for reading. I'm honestly curious how many more intellectual beat-downs you can take.
But then again.....This could all be brain fizz right? Right Matt?
Crash: 1st cause argument problems
Problem 1 – It introduces utterly pointless layers of complexity
A rule is assumed that everything has a cause, including the universe
Since something must have caused the universe … god did it.
The most immediate and obvious reply is to ask, “But what caused God?”. The standard answer is, “Ah, but God has no cause, god is an exception to that rule”. So essentially, an entire layer of pointless complexity called God is invented and then declared to be an exception to the rule that everything has a cause. If you want to get into the game of deciding that there is no cause for the first cause, then it would be far simpler to simply decide that the universe itself has no cause, there is no need to invent additional and utterly pointless layers of complexity, especially when there is no credible objective evidence that can justify such a leap.
Problem 2 – The assumption that causality applies to the universe may not be true
Clearly causality applies to the known world but we have no evidence to verify that it applies to the universe at large, that is simply an assumption. When we think of the big bang, the rapid expansion of the early universe from the singularity, we think of that as the start of both space and also time. The thought that something causes something else describes a sequence of events one after the other in space-time. If you then ask questions such as what caused the big bang, the start of space-time, you are in fact asking a meaningless question. It is perhaps akin to asking what is south of the south pole.
Problem 3 – It is a modern variation of palaeolithic thinking
Once upon a time our ancestors faced deeply mysterious things, lights in the sky, thunder, wind, and so as an attempt to grasp meaning they attributed these to be manifestations of supernatural entities. We now know a lot more and understand all these to be quite natural – no gods required. Our current knowledge and understanding has an ever-expanding boundary, but right now the origin of the universe is still a mystery. There are of course many avenues of research and also thoughts regarding possibilities such as multiple universes, but so far no conclusions .. yet. Right now, when faced with this unknown the “god caused it” claim is simply a reversion to our earlier palaeolithic approach of attributing supernatural entities to the things we don’t understand. This is indeed an answer, and as in every other instance of its deployment, it is not the right one.
Problem 4 – The leap from deism to theism
Even if you accept the premise, which I don’t for the reasons above, it is at best a deist stance and is not in any way a theist stance.
The First Cause claim is not a credible answer and does not withstand factually based criticism, so don’t let others attempt to fool you with it. The problem with invented answers is that they hinder real progress and stop people from seeking the right answer.
“Creation science is an attempt to give credibility to Hebrew mythology by making people believe that the world’s foremost biologists, palaeontologists, and geologists are a bunch of incompetent nincompoops.*
Did you all know that Christianity ripped off the Idea / "Holiday" of Christmas? Interesting huh?
What is now known colloquially as "Christmas" was originally called Yule. A Germanic Pagan Celebration / Holiday.
It was the celebration of the winter solstice and an offering to the Norse God Odin!!
Until, Christianity came along and ripped that shit right off.........changed the meaning of what it was so it suited their narrative....and called it "Christmas."
super super funny......cause....yah know....THIS VERSE from the christian bible.....
"1 Hear the word which the LORD speaks to you, O house of Israel. 2 Thus says the LORD: Do not learn the way of the Gentiles; do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven, for the Gentiles are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are futile; for one cuts a tree from the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. 4 They decorate it with silver and gold; they fasten it with nails and hammers so that it will not topple. 5 They are upright, like a palm tree, and they cannot speak; they must be carried, because they cannot go by themselves. Do not be afraid of them, for they cannot do evil, nor can they do any good.”
Seems that their "god" didn't want them decorating trees...and whatnot ....since this is the "way of the heathen." However it looks like they did it anyways......very interesting.
Furthermore ...there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE to suggest that your "jesus" character was born on DEC 25.....or at all.......so...there's that.
So christians.....next time you say "Merry Christmas" to someone ....and profess this to be "Christs bday" remember the story of Yule and how your religion stole yet ANOTHER thing....from another culture / religion.
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SashaSmiles: I do not think it is WIDELY believed anymore, Crash,that Christmas is solely a Christian belief, there are books about the pagan origins, shows, movies, etc and now the internet where it is very easy to 'google' something. I think it is more likely, that like our preacher, Christmas has been in our homes so long, and accepted as a Christian holiday, despite having kids write Santa Claus (praying), and warning them that Santa Claus is watching them (not God) , that people just WANT to believe that it is Christ sanctioned. Otherwise, why would good Christians celebrate it? People SAY that Christ is the reason for the season, but what part does he really play in it? Sure there are nativity scenes and plays, but as you pointed out this is not even when he was born. The gifts are not for him that we give to one another. If you wanted to celebrate Christ as a Christian, we should really put more emphasis on when he was killed, not when he was born. I know you don't want to celebrate anything about Christ, I am just saying...
So in conclusion...lol...I think most people celebrate Christmas because our society tells us that is what we are supposed to do. It is commercialized to the point of ridiculousness, and it is NOT about Christ, in my opinion. It is so commercialized that the people (including Christians, maybe mostly not sure about the statistics) demand to celebrate it.
Merry Christmas, happy Yule, etc etc etc...I have seen where some religions besides Christians celebrate both Christmas AND their holiday at this time of year. Who does not like pretty lights and music?
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Crash: Theists.....Provide me demonstrable evidence for your specific "god."
Before you comment PLEASE do us all a favor and look up what demonstrable means.....so as to not waste my time and not embarrass yourselves. Thanks.
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Crash: Atheists , as a general rule, LACK a belief in any "god" or "gods" ...which is not the same as actively not believing ....they are similar...however NOT the same.
Furthermore......one can't JUST be "Agnostic" Gnosticism and Agnosticism deal with KNOWLEDGE....what one "knows." You can be Gnostic or Agnostic about ANYTHING. Some simply saying someone is "Agnostic" means nothing until you give it a qualifier.
Hence why I am an Agnostic Atheist.
Crash: Try this one on for size Theists:
The idea of a conscious creator-of-all existence existing at one time before all of existence--as the Biblical God is often described as being, creates a huge logical problem for those who claim such an entity exists.
Consciousness in an emergent phenomenon arising from existence. There must first exist an ability to perceive, and something TO perceive, something to integrate and store concepts in order for any form of consciousness to exist.
How God is described however, we have a conscious entity existing BEFORE existence exists, since God is claimed to have created all of existence.
Here we have a contradiction of the necessary conditions for such a being to exist all.
(1) Claim of conscious entity existing BEFORE all of existence
(2) Conscious entity creates all of existence AFTER it is conscious of THE VERY EXISTENCE IT HAS YET TO CREATE.
Do we not see a problem here?
It is simply impossible for this entity to exist.
Since nothing can exist as a contradiction of itself--a square circle, or a married bachelor for instance-- then this type of entity cannot possibly exist.
Many will then say:
"god was just conscious of himself"
This cannot be either. God can't be conscious of himself. He can't exist. Remember?
"god is eternal"
Sorry, this doesn't get you off the hook either. Being that God's existence is dependent of existence existing before God's existence, that existence will still have to exist BEFORE any God. The contradicting conditions associated with the claim of God's existence doesn't go away. And the idea of eternity does not ever go so far that it just doesn't matter anymore how far it goes--in either direction.
"God is a supernatural entity that exists outside science, human logic and human understanding"
If one claims something and then asserts the thing they are claiming is somehow exempt from the parameters of logic that prove any other claim, the problem here is that if this allowed to just invent their own parameters of how their claim is proven--one could claim the existence of ANYTHING--regardless of how irrational, contradictory, undemonstrated and implausible that claim may be and do the same thing.
"I believe a schoobob is an invisible bachelor that is married and that makes the earth wobble but nobody notices"
"Oh ya? Such a thing is illogical. Such a thing could not possibly exist logically"
"A schoobob lies outside human logic and human understanding."
And then of course we also have:
"God exists outside time and space "
Existence is a process and all processes require time. In order for something to exist, by any normal usage of the word, time is then a requirement. The word "exists" is a present tense usage of the word "exist" and tenses are of course, descriptions of time.
Imagine if I told you I have in my possession a bucket of gold that I've had for zero minutes and zero seconds. I've had it then for no time at all. You would laugh at me and say that if I had it for zero minutes and zero seconds, it never existed at all and you would be correct.
Saying "God exists outside space and time" is then identical to the bucket of gold analogy. If God exists for zero time, he doesn't exist at all. Furthermore, God could not have created the very realm of time that is required for his own existence.
Believers: You have hit the wall. This is the wall you have to face concede you have hit this wall. An entity such as how God is described, does not and cannot possibly exist
Crash: All atheism requires is logical justification for reasonable non-belief. Here are four criteria one can use to say something most likely doesn't exist: (1) It is never seen, (2) We see no phenomenon that is best explained by it, (3) It strongly resembles other things we know aren't real, and (4) There is a plausible explanation for why the concept of the thing originated other than the thing existing.
Every supernatural god meets all four criteria:
(1) we do not detect any gods,
(2) no known phenomenon has ever been best explained by any gods,
(3) every god is very similar to things we know aren’t real (e.g. other gods, magical creatures, comic book characters) and very unlike things we know are real, and
(4) the concept of gods (along with spirits, demons, and other supernatural beings) likely started as a pre-scientific explanation for natural phenomena.
Until one or more of these categories change, it is reasonable to put gods into the list of non-existing things—right along with unicorns, telepathy, and ghosts.
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Crash: LOL @ I'm "Upset" hahaha Zan.....you could never "Upset" me with your idiot nonsense. You don't have the intellect required to make me "upset." What you DO however is annoy the crap out of me with the same old tired bullshit you always say. Assertions without evidence......Deflections...and NON Answers to basic simple challenges or questions.
Then when you are cornered by logic and facts....this is what you do....you ad hom or deflect to try to get out of answering things you KNOW you can't without sounding retarded.
You have no arguments....just childish nonsense ....you do this OVER AND OVER .....it's tiresome and I would imagine super embarrassing for you. LMFAO
But please continue......it's hilarious to watch your failings.